An Interesting Article

[Cyndi]

Hi all...It's been a while since I've posted here. I came across this article this morning and thought I'd share it with you guys. Hope you all have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. My bees are doing great...no chemicals for me. Take care.

http://gaia-health.com/articles351/0...e-poison.shtml

[AmericasBeekeeper]

Old news, but thanks for sharing.

[jdb5949]

We should all sign the petition at the Pesticide action network.

http://action.panna.org/p/dia/action...ction_KEY=5370

[peterloringborst]

Any article that begins with :

EPA May Allow Extinction of Bees: Supports Bayer's Profits from Nerve Poison

is certain to be all downhill from there. Are you serious? Do you think bees are headed for extinction? There are hundreds of millions of colonies of honey bees in the world! Not to mention all the hundreds of thousands of other species of bees that aren't honey bees.

Endangered -- NOT!

[hipbee]

peter, I agree that headlines like that are a little to much hype, but we are all endagered if we dont start living sustainably. yes we are serious, bees and all of the rest of the planet are headed for extinction if we dont stop using and polluting resources faster than we can figure out how to replace them. It is really scary to me that we need the EPA because people wont do the right thing on their own, even more scary that they would approve more pesticides so we can grow more High Fructose corn syrup to feed our junk food addiction. where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?

[peterloringborst]

peter, I agree that headlines like that are a little to much hype

Did you read the article? I have read a lot of articles about bees in my 60 years and that one had more misinformation, outright errors, and ridiculous statements than I have ever seen assembled in one place before. It would be absolutely hilarious if it weren't for the fact that people eat this stuff up as if it were manna. That author has no idea what she is talking about, like an idiot full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[NDnewbeek]

bees and all of the rest of the planet are headed for extinction if we dont stop using and polluting resources faster than we can figure out how to replace them.

Life on this planet existed long before we came along and it will likely exist long after we are gone as well. It is hubris to believe that we have the ability to destroy 'all of the rest of life'.

Furthermore, there is no static nature - the 'normal' state of ecosystems over geologic time is endless change and the ultimate fate of all species is eventual extinction.

Bees (in one form or another) have survived for hundreds of millions of years - through at least three catastrophic periods of mass extinction (at least as indicated in the fossil record). Unless you believe that the EPA and Bayer are a global force of destruction greater than say an ice age or a planet killing comet - I would tend to fall on the side of Peter in this one.

[hipbee]

intresting take, i read the article again just to be sure, but I didnt spot the mass of misinformation, outright errors, and ridiculouse statements. It was very one sided and opinionated though. Just Like your posts here on BS peter.
I dont agree that poison or any other one thing can be blamed for bee losses, instead a combination of negative affects caused by our industrial farming and beekeeping practices.
Peter I looked up your previous posts on here and found you pretty much ney say any natural approach or idea you come across.
Ive been reading everything I can on BS for three years and decided to try natural beekeeping practices even though there are so many people like peter on here debunking natural beekeeping.
It is hilarious that we need grant funded scientist to "DEBUNK" small cells, the bees decided they wanted small cells a long time before we invented larger cell size foundation.
thats it for my rave I know it was off topic, thanks for posting the article cyndi, I had already read it but thanks, soory it was ney sayed so quick.

[Cyndi]

This is one of the reasons I quit posting on this forum. When I signed on in 2005 I met Michael Bush and a few others that understood what was happening in the beekeeping world and we went the other direction when it came to our bees.

My final analysis is this.....beekeepers are killing their own bees and you know what??? when they're all gone and you've killed them all to the brink of extinction...you'll be able to go back and read these threads and we'll say we told you so....

I for one will say I tried to do what is right by the bees and no one listened......except some countries in Italy, UK, Germany, etc......Americans are gonna be left in the cold...with no bees....which will serve you all right!!!! Have a Merry Christmas...I'm going to Italy where people know how to grow agriculture and understand what to do with honeybees!! Ciao Ciao

P.S. Hipbee...you and I think alike...BTW, I love your area in Towsend.....not far from me....good luck with everything and maybe people like us will be left standing with the survivors of this holocaust.

[Bud Dingler]

i fell on the floor and laughed my hind end off when I read this in the article..


" Hiding the Truth in Plain Sight"

"Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) does not exist. The term is nothing more than a means to hide the truth. There is no mystery—and there has never been a mystery—about what's been happening to bees.

They aren't dying of fungal infections.

They aren't dying of varroa mites.

They aren't dying from viral infections.

They aren't dying of starvation."



Yep written by someone with lots of experience keeping bees. Varroa is a myth and so is Nosema, and viruses caused by mites...no that is not real either. Starvation that never happens ever either in LaLa Land.

[Bud Dingler]

you know what I find in common on Beesource?

so called natural beekeepers whom have no data on their mite counts and use small cell, natural cell, no treatments or treatments that have no scientific basis. many of these folks then write later about mysterious disappearances of their bees.

they's all dead! and it must have been the Bayer chemicals cause I read it on the world wide web.

never no mind that the author of this linked article is a housewife with no credentials to her name and no real life experience with bees either. the article though hits on tree hugger values that I want to believe. I believe cause thats all I need to do is believe and then its true. really just trust me.

[Michael Palmer]

My final analysis is this.....beekeepers are killing their own bees and you know what???

"They aren't dying of varroa mites.

They aren't dying from viral infections.

They aren't dying of starvation."

Cyndi, are you serious? I usually hold my tongue on these so called informed reports. To say that our bees aren't dying from the above is wrong and ignorant. Have you seen paralysis virus? Have you seen parasitic mite syndrome? How can you claim it's the beekeepers doing this to their bees??

I guess in the case of starvation, you're correct...the beekeepers are doing this to their bees...by not feeding them sugar at the appropriate time. But then...sugar poison is worse than starvation?

I stand with Peter and Dingler on this one. More scare tactics from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.

[valleyman]

Bud and Peter you are right about this article being full of assumptions and innuendos.

You couldn't be more wrong about Bayer, Syngenta, Dow, etc, and the EPA being responsible enough to trust our agriculture future and bees to.

Do you really think that we less intellectuals do not have any idea what is going on in this country or the world in general?

Are you really willing to bet OUR future on your opinions that you flaunt so freely on here?

Peter I have read many of your posts on a variety of subjects. I have not ever seen you when confronted with some proof of something not agreeable with your post do anything but answer with some pdf file that you have stored, and in many cases it won't even be relevent to the subject. I really do admire you with your ability to post all the articles on here, and remember where you have them stored. But Peter as intelligent as you are you have been wrong before as you are here on this issue.
Respectfully, Brent Cook

[peterloringborst]

You couldn't be more wrong about Bayer, Syngenta, Dow, etc, and the EPA being responsible enough to trust our agriculture future and bees to.

Honestly, where on earth did you get that idea? I don't "trust" anybody. Neither do I think one faction or another is evil.

If I refer to "some pdf somewhere" it's because I don't have permission to distribute these documents. (I am not Mr. WikiBeeLeak). I have been very generous in quoting from them, which is all I am at liberty to do.

However, many of the relevant documents are available to the public. PLoS (Public Library of Science) makes all their publications freely accessible. Many of the authors release the papers on their own websites.

Do you have any idea how many thousands of hours of my own time I have put into this? My wife thinks I am in love with bees and beekeepers. I say no, but she has me figured out.

PLB

[StevenG]

While I don't trust Bayer, and I'm extremely skeptical of the safety of the neonic pesticides, that article simply lost it... the author obviously has no understanding of beekeeping in the US today, and no experience with bees. Such a shame to destroy what may have been a valid thesis - danger of neonics - with such biased garbage.
Regards,
Steven

[peterloringborst]

Such a shame to destroy what may have been a valid thesis - danger of neonics

We are discussing the pros and cons of the thesis over at "LEAKED EPA allows bee toxic pesticide ? ccd ?"

Of course, pesticides are bad for bees. Bees are insects and sensitive to chemicals, in and out of the hive. What is at issue is: does banning Neonics lead to improvement in bee health? So far, there is little evidence that it does, aside from some anecdotes where beekeepers say stuff like: bees look better this year. Bees look better some years than others, as a rule. That isn't evidence. I wonder how folks would feel if they were in a court facing an accuser who said "he could've done it, I think he did it".

[Scrapfe]

... that article simply lost it... the author obviously has no understanding of beekeeping ...and no experience with bees

I read the article with much interest and I never before realized cornfields were such a rich source of nectar for honeybees like the article said. But wait, wouldn't that make corn sugars (HFCS) a precursor chemical for manufacturing honey? Then in good years why don’t bee colonies near cornfields produce thousand pound honey crops? And no, corn flowers don't grow in cornfields. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...26tbs%3Disch:1
I’m with you StephenG.

[heaflaw]

As a 15 year hobbyist with 18 hives who hasn't treated in 6 years with 15% losses, here's my 2 cents worth:

My politics is left of center, I don't trust Bayer, et al, and I've been known to hug a few trees. But that article is so sensationalist, one-sided, unscientific and just plain wrong that it does much harm to the treatment free ideology. There seem to be many treatment free hobbyists on Beesource and I suspect most find that article ludicrous.

I hope that people like Peter Borst, Mike Palmer & Bud Dingler whom I respect and hope to continue to lean from do not jump to the conclusion that all or even most treatment freers think like that article does.

Lawrence Heafner

[peterloringborst]

I hope that people like Peter Borst, Mike Palmer & Bud Dingler whom I respect and hope to continue to lean from do not jump to the conclusion that all or even most treatment freers think like that article does.

Thanks for the kind words. I have been visiting bee source long enough to know that there are many excellent beekeepers here that have found a way to avoid chemicals. I salute you!

I have been trying to avoid chemicals with my own bees. I have lost a lot of bees over the years. I never had a hive live more than two years since varroa. Even when I treated, I always seemed to get there too late.

My plan is to just get more bees. I would like to try the mite away quick strips if they ever get to the USA. It's a 24 hour knock down, which if timed correctly might only be needed once per season.

In my book, anyone who has bees and works hard at doing a good job is a bee keeper.. Then there are those who set them up and wait and see. Those are the bee havers. Finally, we have folks that write articles about extinction and all that. You know, wanna bees.

[Bud Dingler]

I'm with Peter and have worked hard to get my bees to the point where I don't need much if any treatments. Treatments I do use are thymol based.

But coming from family that's in the fruit business I have an appreciation for how hard it is to grow fruit and veggies and produce a salable crop.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, I'd rather my bees encounter a Bayer Neonic then a old school Organophosphate chemical in their foraging.