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  1. #21
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    Aug 2009
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    Windham, Maine
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    102

    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    Very well stated rrussell6870 !!!

    For some reason some of you seem to think that most farms are giant corporate entities. Truth is most farms are still family farms where the families bust their butts every day trying to make a living. There are very few giant corporate farms and even some of those are family owned with several generations owning and working them. With a very few exceptions, poultry comes to mind, corporate America is way to profit orientated to actually farm. They would rather let the little guy sell below the cost of production year after year.

    As for EPA anything they come up with for regulations is usually totally devoid of any common sense. Logic is ignored and any science based data is only included if it backs up their thinking. Do the big guys like Monsanto and Bayer have any influence with EPA regs? Probably they might, as the American Farmers do not seem to have any.

    Just my opinion!

  2. #22
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    May 2009
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    Brandon, MS USA
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    1,585

    Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry Digman View Post
    To clarify this beef issue McDonald's issued the following in October of 2009.
    I myself do not believe them... I didnt get any info from an email... I got it from two of my close friends that run a few thousand head of cattle along the levy on the Mississippi river. They had been suppliers to McDs for years... till the buyer told them that they would have to either drop the price to well below half of the current market or they would be cut just like the rest of the US because they have a great deal coming from S. America... There are a few cattle growers on here... Do you guys know anything about it?? I am also doubty about them buying from NZ and Australia for use in the US... Isnt ausie beef high than US beef right now?? then to ship it around the world would nearly double the increase...

    Not trying to fuss with you... just wanted you to know where I got my info from, so you can make your own choice.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Munfordville, Ky. U.S.A.
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    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    Coopermaple,
    Let me take issue with part of your post. All of the grain farmers may not be large enough to be considered corperations, but almost all in the state of Ky. will be farming from 1000+ acres. Whether it be soybeans, corn, canola, or other. Which means they have some bargaining power. As I've stated before they don't know or quite honestly don't care what the effects of the chemicals they or Bayer is using on the seed. They are after top production, which is neccessary for their survival.
    Now the beef business which I was and still am now small scale. It is not feasible for anyone to ship cattle or beef here from Australia or New Zealand. There's just too much distance. However Argentina and Brazil have actually tried to ship live cattle here to our markets which was designed, in my opinion to control the price of beef being purchased for the feed lots. It too was just too much distance to be feasible. Now as far as McDonalds buying beef, is there anyone that thinks that they are worried about where it comes from. They have buyers that their job is to get a certain quality of beef for hamburger (folks you really don't want to know the quality of beef that goes to hamburgers) and if you think for a second that they care whether it comes from the USA or abroad, you need to wake up
    What people fail to realize all companys are in business for money/profits, and almost all don't care how they make it. They have an owner or board of directors to answer to.
    So much to learn, so little time!!

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Hillsborough, Florida, USA
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    72

    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    With respect to corn, which is the crop at issue in the case of this particular pesticide, it's not so much at the FARM level that concentration and market power exist, but at the processor level. Three companies, Archer Daniels Midland, Bunge and Cargill control 90+% of the global corn market. I spoke of concentration and consolidation of the corn business when it was suggested that we just stop buying from those farmers. My point was that it is ADM, Bunge and Cargill who buy from those farmers, directly or indirectly, so we as consumers simply don't have the direct connection to the farmers who are using this substance to boycott them. By the way, farmers would be much better off if ADM, Bunge and Cargill didn't have an oligopoly in corn. Does anyone believe for a moment that they don't act in an orchestrated way to depress the prices of their raw materials?

  5. #25
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    Nov 2009
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    Munfordville, Ky. U.S.A.
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    1,246

    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    Pilgarlic,
    I agree with every thing that you've posted on this and the other thread. Except I think you've missed a key bit of information, that being that clothidinian is used also on soybeans and canola seed. Both of these are frequented by honeybees much more than corn. Maybe I'm wrong but my old brain remembers reading that somewhere in these posts. Keep posting I like your logic.
    So much to learn, so little time!!

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Beer's Settlement, NY USA
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    1,325

    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    Recent headlines claim a link between Clothianidin and CCD, but no such link has ever been demonstrated. In Germany its effect on overwintering has been studied and no effect on the overwintering ability of honey bees was found.

    In the first project year honey and bee bread samples were specifically analysed for imidacloprid residues of treated oilseed rape sites. This crop is intensively treated with plant protection products and oilseed rape pollen and nectar are very attractive for bees.

    Within the framework of the German Bee Monitoring Project winter losses of bee colonies were evaluated from the database of 120 beekeepers and 1200 bee colonies by assessing the following parameters: data on the apiary, strength of the colonies in autumn and spring, honey yields, residues in bee bread (stored pollen), bee disease analysis.

    1. Between oilseed rape sites and non-oilseed rape sites no differences were found for colony losses neither for the overwintering quotient (= colony strength in autumn divided by colony strength in spring).

    2. Highly significant correlations were found between winter losses and the Varroa infestation levels in autumn. The risk for colony loss increases with the number of mites in the colony in autumn.

    3. Similarly the correlations between the infection with ABPV and DWV in autumn and winter losses were significant.

    SOURCE: "Periodical honey bee colony losses in Germany: preliminary results from a four years monitoring project"

  7. #27
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    Nov 2009
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    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    Let me think about this.
    With VD and Nosema is there dead bees and bees with DWV?
    With CCD there are no dead bees, just an empty hive?
    What would you have if your bees all died from pesticides before they got back to the hive?
    I guess I don't understand as I only have common sense!
    So much to learn, so little time!!

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Beer's Settlement, NY USA
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    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by valleyman View Post
    Let me think about this.
    With VD and Nosema is there dead bees and bees with DWV?
    With CCD there are no dead bees, just an empty hive?
    What would you have if your bees all died from pesticides before they got back to the hive?
    I guess I don't understand as I only have common sense!
    OK, so suppose your wife goes out to the store and doesn't come back. If she had been abducted by aliens, she wouldn't have come back. Therefore, she must have been abducted by aliens. Done deal.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Poplar Bluff, Missouri, USA
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    2,280

    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by peterloringborst View Post
    OK, so suppose your wife goes out to the store and doesn't come back. If she had been abducted by aliens, she wouldn't have come back. Therefore, she must have been abducted by aliens. Done deal.
    I put 11 hives on soybeans on a trailer in July...they were packing in a super and a half of sealed honey a week, then like a door slamming shut, it stopped. The populations of the hives were visibly depleted. I inquired around, a farmer had sprayed his blooming beans with a pesticide, instant bee kill in the field. No dead bees at the hives. Just depleted populations and no more honey. I guess aliens abducted them.
    Regards,
    Steven
    "If all you have is a hammer, the whole world is a nail." - A.H. Maslow

  10. #30
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    Nov 2009
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    Munfordville, Ky. U.S.A.
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    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by peterloringborst View Post
    OK, so suppose your wife goes out to the store and doesn't come back. If she had been abducted by aliens, she wouldn't have come back. Therefore, she must have been abducted by aliens. Done deal.
    Well if you knew my wife you wouldn't used her as an example. There's no alien race mean enough to take her. If they did they would bring her back with a gift. Priceless.
    Seriously, I am not totally uneducated, and with your intellect I'm sure that you believe as I do the situation you describe is within a realm of possibility.
    So much to learn, so little time!!

  11. #31
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    Jan 2010
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    Beer's Settlement, NY USA
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    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by valleyman View Post
    Well if you knew my wife you wouldn't used her as an example. There's no alien race mean enough to take her. If they did they would bring her back with a gift. Priceless.
    Seriously, I am not totally uneducated, and with your intellect I'm sure that you believe as I do the situation you describe is within a realm of possibility.
    Of course, it's entirely possible that an alien race would take your wife. I grew up watching the Twilight Zone. Did you see the episode "To Serve Man?" Aliens were picking up humans by the thousands. Scientists got a hold of one of their publications, entitled "To Serve Man". Turned out, it was a cook book.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Ozark, Ar
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    76

    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    If you are on this blog, Please Help to protect the Honey Bee's, sign! If not, Why are you HERE ? On a Honey Bee Blog ?

  13. #33
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Knox Co, Ohio, USA
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    771

    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    If you are on this blog, Please Help to protect the Honey Bee's, sign! If not, Why are you HERE ? On a Honey Bee Blog ?
    I, for one, don't believe it will do one thing to protect honey bees. I also support farmers of all crops.

    Tom

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Munfordville, Ky. U.S.A.
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    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    It makes me feel beter to know that I've tried.
    So much to learn, so little time!!

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Limestone Co, Alabama
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    1,674

    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    Quote Originally Posted by rrussell6870 View Post
    ...McDonalds ...has stopped purchasing beef from the US saying that the US can not supply enough beef to meet their needs... the reason they went to South America is ...price ......Isnt ausie beef high[er] than US beef ...? [would] ship[ing] it around the world nearly double...
    http://www.fsis.usda.gov/help/FAQs_H...tion/index.asp
    http://www.fda.gov/Food/Internationa...m211823.htm#q3

    don't worry, the FDA looks at your food for three weeks per year in every foreign country from which your food comes, ...if that country allows them to look that is. Now wouldn't you hate to be a domestic frozen sausage pitza. The government dosen't know if the USDA, FSIS, EPA, or the FDA is the agency responsiable for inspecting you, but if you happen to be an imported frozen sausage pizea the FDA is your man.

    As Barry shows, the problem McDonalds has with US beef is not its price but its fat content. For this, we should blame phony health food organizations like Ingrid Newkirk's PETA & CPSPI who repeatedly slams American business of all kinds.

    Australia and New Zealand sell a world of mutton in the Middle East, and you could say the Middle East invented mutton.

    Australia and New Zealand import Mohammedan mullas or holy men to insure the packers comply with Sheri Law with every lamb they slaughter. The mullas' testimonials can be seen on Jordanian TV, and that, (two oceans away) is a 'fur' piece to ship a sheep.

    PETA's and others' war on saturated fat caused America to switch first from lard, to butter, to corn oil, and finally to palm oil in our solid cooking fats like Crisco. Now that palm oil plantations are encroaching on orangutan habitat PETA is screaming about the dangers of trans fat in the very palm oil PETA once touted. I doubt the USDA, FSIS, EPA, & FDA, playing in our food can cause any less damage than PETA, while Bayer's, and ADM's finger in the pie will (hopefully) not cause as much.
    Scrapfe---Never believe anything in politics until it has been officially denied.--Otto von Bismarck.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Ozark, Ar
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    76

    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    A Honey Bee Dance. (Bump)

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Ozark, Ar
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    76

    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    A Honey Bee Dance. (Bump)

  18. #38
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    Jun 2009
    Location
    Montgomery County, NY
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    1,596

    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    Signed.

    So mcdonalds buys high quality beef? That is sort of funny as they server the worse food in the world.

    I personally buy all the food i can from local farmers or i raise it myself.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Ozark, Ar
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    76

    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    Pesticide kills the Immune system ? . There by allowing The Honey Bee To Die From something ELSE ... ? It Takes far less Pesticide to cause the Immune system to fail ? ! There by little trace . WHY?.... Do we use Pesticide's ? Are The Bugs GONE ? "The Goal" HOW does it work with VERY limited trace's ???

    http://www.monitor.net/monitor/3-10-...ideimmune.html


    I'am not a scientist!

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Orange, Virginia, USA
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    382

    Default Re: Take Action ! U.S. Environmental Protection Agency

    I signed the petition on the grounds of the study that was performed. Sorry to say, in my opinion, it was flawed. I think additional studies are needed and a ban or temp ban should be put into order.

    Simple facts on our nations history...

    DDT,
    Asbestos,
    Benzene,
    Lead,,,
    Radon (biggest bunch of horse poop ever) (U.S. 4 pcu/hr is limit....average exposure in mediterranean area 24 pcu/hr with little to no cancer). So why does the U.S. have this limit? I have seen million if not billions spent on this. Simple fact, cracking a window and letting in natural ventilation does the same if not more than drilling holes in the subspace of a structure, installing fans and ventilations systems to ven above the roof of that structure. The countless studies that people like me charge 250 to 500/hr to do because of lame standard (where it came from no one knows). It really makes me wonder on any chemical usage in the US.

    Should I go on?

    Hardly any of these chemicals were studied and have left a huge impact, social, political and financial. The dealth, destruction and law suites are still seen today, every law office just about switching to chemical suites.

    I can list a few more chemicals that I personally think warrant a eye ball...ethylene glycol ether products. Found largly in soaps and cleaners. Easily absrobs thru the skin (skin notation), has damaging effects such as kidney, liver and reproductive failure or issues. An even bigger one, suspected carcinogen, formaldehyde, lung, nose and throat, used in a lot of glues, dye process as in carpets, preservatives for would and wood products, leather tanning...the list of uses goes on and this is the chemical used that requires car manufactures to put the chemicals used in making of this vehicle may cause cancer. This is one that I wrote about in college and used for one of the suspect cancer causing products that contributed to flawed studies blaming tobacco manufactures. Example, Europe imports a lot if not most of its tobacco from US. Same process in manufactured in making tobacco products as US. They have 2.5 x the smokers than we do in the US, but their cancer rate is almost half of the US. Now does that make sense? Nothing has been done to limit this product in 20+ years. Still being wildly used. In my opinion it will be the next asbestos, you can take that one to the bank. Nothing will be done until a product can be found that does the same thing at the same or lower cost.

    Personnaly, there are a lot of things that are not right, however they will not get fixxed.

    Our country has become reactive vs proactive when it comes to the chemical industry.

    Corn industry for the most part has converted to fuel production, which will come to an end since the farm credit for fuel producing corn producers has came to an end.

    I error on side of caution, that is what my years of education and college tells me to do, to do what is right in my eyes based on the information in front of me. Better safe than sorry.

    Chris

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