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Thread: Mite Resistance

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    I have observed the "get it off me dance" and the subsequent grooming in every breed of bees I've had, both in my observation hive and in my hives. I don't think it's unique.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  2. #22
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    I have observed the "get it off me dance" and the subsequent grooming in every breed of bees I've had, both in my observation hive and in my hives. I don't think it's unique.
    Agreed... basic grooming is not necessarily a form of resistance... have noted them aggressively removing the mite and immediately leaving the hive with it though... may not amount to anything more than a few clean bees... but worth keeping am eye on. Certainly not worth breeding as a hygienic, but I would like to learn more about just how actively his bees are seeking mites to groom off. It really depends on the level of effectiveness as to whether or not it would be worth considering a series of studies.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    I thought this study interesting in that it indicates the domestic bees already had a high level of grooming ability. Less virulent mites and a few other important traits surely would be helpful in keeping mites at a more workable level.
    I also see that the Russian bees had higher drone production than the Domestics. Them boy's may deserve a little more respect.

    Resistance to the parasitic mite Varroa destructor
    in honey bees from far-eastern Russia

    A greater percentage of the dead mites
    collected from the P colonies had physical
    damage attributable to grooming (P = 42%
    (8265 of 19680 mites), D = 28% (15712
    of 56116 mites)
    ,c2 test of independence,
    P = 0.0001, c2 test of heterogeneity between
    months, NS). No seasonal variation in these
    percentages was apparent, although the
    monthly total of dead mites increased as
    infestations grew.
    http://www.culturaapicola.com.ar/apu...4/rinderer.pdf

  4. #24
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    Delta,

    No one has knocked the Russians, but most agree that they are for certain climates... It is 72 degrees here today, will be in the 80s next week... When chosing stock for a commercial apiary, there is more to consider than just the number of dead varroa... honestly, advanced carnica have been noted as being just as resistant as russians and lightyears ahead in climatic adaptability, production, and gentleness.

    Again, not knocking them, just saying that they are northern bees...thus they work best in northern climates... In the south where they have a year-round flow, they can even wipe themselves out by over storing and keeping such a small cluster that they cant defend from robbing.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    No one has knocked the Russians,
    My pointing was not about the Russians but that the Domestic bees showed a high rate of grooming. If you go by the number of mites groomed the Domestics where given it all they had, just couldn't keep up.

  6. #26
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    Delta.... Noted... I apologize.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    rrussell6870

    You are talking Russians and advanced carnica. Do you know what are the different between both kind and where the Russians originally coming from?

  8. #28
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    yes...africa. lol. All Apis breeds and strains originated from a 100+ million year old bee that actually somewhat resembled a wasp. Directly, Russian or Primorsky come the southeast corner of russia. They are still of the species Apis mellifera. Over 150 years of exposure to Varroa (R) mites has allowed them to develop their current resistance... however, the climate of Russia has much to do with the controlled levels of infestation...(as no creature can develop a defense to something that destroys it within only a few gens). Prior to the Primorsky Krai region, they were on a gradual northern track through asia and europe.

    Hope this helps. If there something in particular that you are needing to know, I would be happy to help.

  9. #29
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    Axtmann,

    Being in Germany, are you aware that an institute in Kirchhain Germany, has been trialling their Carnica against Primorsky Queens? Go to the "Queen And Bee Breeding" forum... in this forum there is a thread titled "Queen Breeding"... there is more info there about the topic.
    Last edited by rrussell6870; 11-18-2010 at 06:21 PM.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    What I know about the Primorsky Bees is they are Carnies that were taken into the Primosky region around the 1850's. Where it gets blurry is exactly when the mites made the jump and how long it took for the Primorsky bees and mites too develop coexistence. Could have been 5 years or 125 years. Does anyone know for sure?
    What is fairly clear is the style of management in box hives (Swarm System) that was common throughout that area that allowed natural selection to take place.

  11. #31
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    Delta,

    Primorsky bees are not Carniolans... They are a mixture of A. Mellifera Acervorum (Ukranian), A. Mellifera Mellifera (German Black Bee), and A. Mellifera (Italian). This mixture was made in the Primorsky region not before and not intentionally.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    Since those European bees developed a resistance to varroa naturally, why can American run of the mill Europeans not do the same?

  13. #33
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    Quote Originally Posted by heaflaw View Post
    Since those European bees developed a resistance to varroa naturally, why can American run of the mill Europeans not do the same?
    They have...and quite quickly when compared to the Primorsky. There are many breeders in the US selling survivor stock and several with hybrid stock.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    Quote Originally Posted by rrussell6870 View Post
    They have...and quite quickly when compared to the Primorsky. There are many breeders in the US selling survivor stock and several with hybrid stock.
    So, why don't all beekeepers go ASAP with those survivors only? It would save a lot of money and time as well as simply leave us with healthier bees in general.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    I believe the future of honey for human consumption is dependent on the development of untreated survivor stocks acclimated to local conditions.
    Last edited by greengecko; 11-18-2010 at 09:23 PM.

  16. #36
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    It's just not that simple.. In the US commercial bee operations are responsible for billions of dollars in crops each year... not every bee operates the same way... thus bees have been selectively bred to produce better in certain areas... These operations depend on things such as early buildup, heavy populations, lengthy pollenation ranges, etc... where as most strains of survivor stock seem to come from less adapted base genetics... perfectly understandable... However, if everyone switched to these regressive genetics, the first 20 years would show a giant loss in productions as opposed to the levels of today...

    However, these commercial apiaries are not feeding the mite problem at all, as they all have very well managed treatment programs and in 99 of 100 cases have much healthier hives than the local hobiest.. BEFORE YOU SEND YOUR HATE MAIL.... The answer is productive stock enhancement via lite, yet long term exposure... we have beaten the mites by doing so with our operation, and not been forced to regress in productive breeding. This process takes much longer than simply letting everything die and grafting off of what is left... but the queens are already available and not just here, they are also available in Germany, Turkey, and I believe in Jordan as well. Quite simply put, they are highly productive stock that has been allowed to be exposed to mites for short periods of time, yet treated to bring them back to full health and then repeated... after hundreds of gens, the hygenic behavior has developed and although they are not as resistant as the Primorsky, they are quite far along and require no treatments.

  17. #37
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    Just wanted to add that I think New Zealand is offering them as well.

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    Are you talking about VSH, Minn Hyg, NWC that so much has been written about, or are these other lines? Were the above produced by the method you described?

  19. #39
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    Some were. They are all great stock. But it has also been used in Italians and many other hybrids. When selecting queens, just ask your breeder how often he has to treat and they will surely be happy to tell you. Or try a few from different breeders each year, then chose the stock that best defends itself against VD, yet still produces the product that you desire.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    mixture of A. Mellifera Acervorum (Ukranian), A. Mellifera Mellifera (German Black Bee), and A. Mellifera (Italian).
    Do you have documentation that can be shared of their pedigree?

    Thanks!

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