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Thread: Mite Resistance

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    Quote Originally Posted by rrussell6870 View Post
    However, these commercial apiaries are not feeding the mite problem at all, as they all have very well managed treatment programs and in 99 of 100 cases have much healthier hives than the local hobiest.. BEFORE YOU SEND YOUR HATE MAIL.....
    Ha Ha, I love your humor Robert!

    It's also kind of soothing to see some of the ill informed rumors that fly around about commercial beekeepers debunked.

    Quote Originally Posted by rrussell6870 View Post
    Just wanted to add that I think New Zealand is offering them as well.
    There is at this stage, a small experimental VSH population here in NZ, that has been developed primarily through a government backed program. The genetics is primarily italian, the best bees for most NZ conditions. They are not available to the general public yet but a plan is being developed to make them available through responsible breeders who will continue the further developement of them that is still needed.

  2. #42
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    Bilash G.D., Krivtsov N.I. - Moscow, Agropromizdat,
    ISBN 5-10-001701-5



    Far Eastern Bees. Those bees can and should be classified as primitive
    strain, however officially they are not accepted as a strain, despite there
    are no any serious reason against such decision. They populate territory of
    Chitinsky, Amursky, Khabarovsky and Primorsky regions, where Far Eastern bee
    formed as primitive strain from the end of 19-th century till present times
    as result of excursive crosses of bees introduced by frontiersmen mostly of
    Ukrainian strain, less - central Russian strain, lesser - yellow and gray
    Caucasian strain and much lesser - Italian strain, and also as result of
    natural and artificial selection. As result of heterogeneous origin Far
    Eastern bees differ from other strains by greater amplitude of variability,
    however according main characteristics quite answer to conditions of
    primitive strain (array of specific features, their stabile inheritance from
    generation to generation, great number of families, which exclude
    probability of relative crosses in big scale and so on).

    V.V. Stasevich (1913), known specialist of Far Eastern bee-keeping,
    considered that Far Eastern bees are product of successful combination of
    central Russian and Ukrainian bees in conditions of Primorsky region.

    V. Grudnov (1913) reported, that in Amursky region settlers introduced
    central Russian bees from Altay, from Perm and Voronezh regions, Ukrainian
    bees - from Poltava region, and Caucasian bees (most probably, yellow
    ones) - from northern Caucasus. Caucasian bees badly hibernated here, they
    was very swarmed (up to 4 swarms, and sometimes 7-8 swarms per family during
    summer), but was outstanding by honey production.

    Prominent personality of Far Eastern bee-keeping, one of the founder of
    Dalpcheltrest G.F. Muryi denoted, that in the Far East gray Caucasian bees
    was also introduced as well as queens of Italian strain (included ones from
    Australia).

    Sound about right? I could show you the ancestrial SNPs from each genome, but this should be sufficient.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    Hi rrussell6870

    Congratulation you have a good knowledge!

    Approx 150 years ago Russians deported unwanted people from the Ukraine to nowhere - and this was the region around Wladiwostok. Some farmers had there honey bees also in there bag pack. And so end up the European honey bee in the homeland of the Asian bee Apis cerana and the Varroa mites. The Apis cerana has a shorter development time and not a big problem with the mites; it is not the cleaning behavior that let them survive.

    IMO in a few years they lost all European bees to the mites, but as you know, it takes a while and during this time some crossbreed with the Apis cerana and survived. This survivor is the Primorski bee or so called Apis Mellifera Acervorum. Today the Ukraine has several bee species, the Apis mellifera mellifera, the A mellifera acervorum and the A mellifera carpatica.

    The disadvantage from the Primorski bee, they over winter in small clusters and have a slow start in spring. IMO - that’s not what commercial beekeepers need.
    By the way, 150 years ago the Apis Mellifera Mellifera, the dark alp mountain bee was the common bee in the Ukraine.

    Yes, I know the bee institute in Kirchhain and Dr. Büchler

  4. #44
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    Axtmann, we will be good friends. lol. I have a few friends in the Ukraine and Russia that you may know as well... I will PM you the names to see if we have common friends... And Thank you very much for the post!

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    What! I didn't know A mellifera can interbreed with A cerana.

    You sure about that Axtman? Can you reference any research on that?

    If true this could be a concern to my country.

  6. #46
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    Oldtimer... I believe they can and do interbreed. I was under the understanding that this was the issue in Australia that caused the US to close our borders to import packages from there. I was told that 200+ colonies had been confirmed as hybridised with cerana... (for those who are wondering)... cerana is effected by varroa (J) a strain that was thought to be isolated to Japan... by the interbreeding of cerana with local stock, the local stock can fall prey to not only varroa (R. From Russia), but (J) as well.

  7. #47
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    I will add though that with careful management, the hybrid strains could quickly be corrected via strict requeening and careful placement of drone comb.

    I believe that if a Millifera queen were bred with nothing but cerana drones, the offspring would possess a fatal gene... however, if that queen were mated with one drone of even a hybrid of cerana, and this process were repeated throughout say 10 years of swarming, it would create a viable stock that would be a major concern for vulnerability to both type (R) and type (J) varroa.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    Well then if i understand Axtman correctly, it means you would already have cerana genes in the US, via the Primorski bee?

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    so exactly what are the resistant strains out there that can be used my the public?

  10. #50
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Well then if i understand Axtman correctly, it means you would already have cerana genes in the US, via the Primorski bee?
    I will need some cerana to find out for sure...dead ones of course. Lol. But I think that is indeed the case... however...they would be distant genes and of stock that was wild and had survived both mites for quite some time before introduction to the Millifera. I think that the main cross would be Millifera, amm, Ukrainian.

  11. #51
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    Quote Originally Posted by Beesrfun View Post
    so exactly what are the resistant strains out there that can be used my the public?
    Anything hygienic... I can't promote my own stock during a conversation like this because I feel it would be immoral... but Minn hyg, VSH, and a vast multitude of survivor stock are available and fairly easy to find.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    Oldtimer

    Yes the A cerana can x breed with the A mellifera.

    In 1976 Dr. Ruttner and other “scientists” from a German bee institute in Oberursel brought cerana queens into Germany for interbreed tests. They so called clever “scientists” didn’t checked for there back pack, the Varroa mite. This mistake was the beginning of the Varroa in Europe, the same mistake like the japans scientists did in 1958.
    I’m dealing (fighting) with the mites since 1977.
    Whenever humans have there hands in the equilibrium of nature they mixing everything up; Varroa in Europe and AHB in South Amerika.

  13. #53
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    Axtmann,

    Your English may not be very good, but your understanding of human "contamination" of natural order, is poetry. Lol.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    So did Ruttner succeed with the interbreeding? And if so, what has become of those bees?

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    So did Ruttner succeed with the interbreeding? And if so, what has become of those bees?
    I would be interested to know also. The best that I can find is the cross produced fertilized eggs through AI but the eggs did not survive.

    The biology of the honey bee By Mark L. Winston

    Page 8 second paragraph

    http://books.google.ca/books?id=-5io...epage&q&f=true
    Last edited by Delta Bay; 11-20-2010 at 11:28 AM.

  16. #56
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    Re: Mite Resistance

    From my understanding of Dr. Ruttner's studies... The II interbreeding between the species created offspring with a fatal gene...which is quite common with any species. However, in open mating projects where fewer cerana drones were present than mellifera, and serveral gens were allowed, the crosses were noted through behavioral activities.

    As far as where these bees are today... my guess would be that they were destroyed by Dr. Ruttner, Mites, and those that may have breach the breeding bounderies would have been killed by AMM during robbing, which surrounded the area. Whether or not a fatal gene was still present in the open mated specimens, we will never know... the offspring of these crossed queens may have only lived to be a year old, may have only layed 100 eggs, may have been rejected continuously, there is really no telling.

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Mite Resistance

    you cannot cross mellifera and cerana bees. the crosses will only produce diploid drones which are killed by the worker bees in the hive within 3 to 4 days of the egg being laid. there has never been any records of crosses between cerana and mellifera. there are lot of places where cerana and mellifera are kept together at the moment and none of them have been recorded to hybridize. there has been lot of experiments trying to hybridize mellifera with cerana and none of them have succeeded till now.

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