Define "treatment free"

[Barry]

Let's get this term down in black and white. There is another thread here titled "is no treatment possible?" where members are claiming not to have treated. So often with statements like this, I have found it means different things to different people. So let's attempt to define what treatments are.

I'll get it started.

Apiguard (thymol)
Mite-away II (formic acid)
Apistan (fluvalinate)
Sucrocide (sucrose octanoate esters)
Mite-A-Thol (menthol)
Terramycin/Tetra-B (antibiotic)
Tylan (antibiotic)
Gardstar (permethrin)
Fumagilin (antibiotic)
Paramoth (p-dichlorobenzene)
Checkmite (coumaphos)
Oxalic Acid (dicarboxylic acid)
Formic Acid (carboxylic acid)
Mineral Oil (food grade mineral oil)
Sugar Dusting (sucrose)
HBH (essential oils)
MegaBee (diet formula)
Honey Bee Healthy (feeding stimulant)
Bt Aizawai (bacteria)
Essential oils (in general)
Sugar/HFCS

Non chemical or drug "treatments"/manipulations:

Frequent queen replacement
Systematic splitting
Frequent replacement of comb/foundation
Small cell foundation
Drone comb and removal
Screen Bottom Boards

[sqkcrk]

To me, the use of anything not normally found in a beehive is a Treatment. Manipulations aren't treatments.

If one were Treatment Free and Manipulation Free one would be a "Let Alone" Beekeeper. Those days are long gone. If you want to Keep bees.

I appreciate your attempt to define the term, Barry. It would be nice if we did this in other areas too. Some words mean different things to different people. My best to you.

[Barry]

Mark -

I would agree with your definition. I suppose I should not break it up into two categories. They are all treatments, but there is a difference between a compound being added versus a different cell size or requeening more often.

[bigbearomaha]

Treatment :

"The act, manner, or method of handling or dealing with someone or something:"
"management in the application of medicines, surgery, etc. "
"subjection to some agent or action. "
"care provided to improve a situation (especially medical procedures or applications that are intended to relieve illness or injury)"

In terms of pest management, relating to insects, plants and disease, a treatment is a manipulation or application of various control methods to minimize or eliminate said pests from an environment such as a building, farm or in beekeepers cases, a bee hive.

All of the things you described above, Barry, are technically "treatments" some of which involve introducing chemical pesticides, others of which fall into biological, mechanical, etc... controls, methods or "treatments".

Personally, to me it seems the biggest argument in this type of discussion revolves around the definition of "chemical" treatments.

Most people want to include all synthetics as chemicals, other want to include natural ingredients as "chemicals" which technically is correct. A chemical can contain any number of synthetic and/or natural ingredients.

For most people I read who say they try to eliminate or minimize "treatments", they usually mean they are not using any type of chemical or very often, no synthetic chemicals, inside the hive.

To be quite literal, even if you do not introduce a chemical to the hive, if you do a powder sugar shake, you have performed a "treatment" or if you pinch a queen, that technically is also a "treatment", performed in order to have effect on the conditions or symptoms of the colony inside the hive.

According to the EPA and the Department of Agriculture, any Integrated Pest Management plan should and can very likely include the possible use of chemicals/pesticides in addition to other control methods (biological, mechanical, regulatory, etc...).

The goal of the Integrated Management Plan is to control populations, keeping them at minimal or economically sustainable levels by using multiple controls which in combination can minimize and, at times, eliminate the need for chemical pesticides. (chemical including both synthetic and natural ingredients)

My point, after all this lengthy typing, is that most people who say they are "treatment free "most likely mean they are "chemical" free, but still use other, non chemical, treatments to have an effect on the health of the colony/hive.

Big Bear

[sqkcrk]

Add to the list of treatment/manipulations:
Moving
Supering
Honey Harvesting
Super Reversal

???

We could get rediculous I bet.

[bigbearomaha]

would you say you are adding supers (or nadiring them) to impact the health of the colony or to increase the amount of honey produced?

moving and harvesting again is not done for colony health reasons.

personally, I see a hive manipulation as those things we do not having to directly or intentionally impact the health conditions of the colony.

Harvesting or increasing production is something different. At least to me it is.

Big Bear

[Barry]

I would agree. We could get extreme on this, but I do think we can find a good balance in where we draw the line.

[StevenG]

Hi Barry!

I assume that since Megabee is on your list, that would include all pollen/diet supplements? If that is the case, then shouldn't sugar be on the list also? My rationale for the question is that we feed diet supplements to stimulate brood rearing and provide feed in the absence of natural pollen. We also feed sugar to stimulate brood rearing, and provide feed in the absence of a honey flow.
Regards,
Steven

[odfrank]

Isn't Gardstar used on the soil, not the bees and hives? Maybe should not be on the list. Then you would have to include paint, Coppernate, Bee-go etc.

[TWall]

I second BBO's comments.

I think there needs to be a differentiation between chemical and non-chemical treatments also. Many people will not lump sugar dusting in with a treatment.

I have also seen confusion about just what IPM is. I read comments where people say something like once a certain mite threshold is met they quit IPM and use chemicals.

Discussing beekeeping is bad enough with so many ways to do things getting a correct, common understanding of terms is important.

Tom

[Barry]

Maybe should not be on the list.

Yeah, not sure about this one. While it is applied to the ground, do we just assume that bees don't touch/land on the ground in front of the hive, pick up residue and take it in? I know I see bees on the ground in front of my hives when activity is high.

[Barry]

Hi Barry!

I assume that since Megabee is on your list, that would include all pollen/diet supplements?

Hi Steven -

I think they all need to be on a list, just not sure yet how best to define it or break it into two lists. As we progress in this discussion, I'll edit the OP to reflect the group thought.

[bigbearomaha]

I have also seen confusion about just what IPM is. I read comments where people say something like once a certain mite threshold is met they quit IPM and use chemicals.

That's part of my point earlier TW. the use/inclusion of chemical pesticides is able to be a part of the total IPM plan.

the truth of the matter is that even chemical pesticides do not kill every 'pest' (be it insect, plant or bacteria/disease) for various reasons. As a matter of fact, no control method, by itself is 100% effective. Thus combining control methods or 'treatments" to get the most effective, efficient and safest plan for the whole environment is the goal.

in my opinion, for someone to say they "quit" IPM" in order to use chemicals, is as you said, indicative of not truly understanding what IPM really is.

Big Bear

[RiodeLobo]

My thought is that there needs to be three Categories of Treatment/Management.

1. Pharmacological Treatment (Any Drug or Chemical Treatment)
2. Non-Pharmacological Treatment (Food Supplements, Drone Foundation, Screened bottom boards)
3. Hive Management (Splits, Requeening, Honey Harvesting)

When i think of of Non-treatment management i personally think of not using Pharmacological Treatments.

Thanks
Dan

[Specialkayme]

If you start asking "what's treatment free" and "what's not treatment free" you are going to end up with 1,000 different opinions on what's what. If you ask 10 beekeepers how they do something, you will likely get 15 different answers.

It might be easier, and more sane, to devide the list into three sections:
1. Things that 'everyone' would include can not be listed in a "treatment free" category. This will likely include tough chemicals, and invasive treatments.

2. Things that 'everyone' would include can be listed in a "treatment free" category, or something that is safe for a beekeeper to use who claims to be treatment free. Not too sure, but this would likely include routine beekeeping practices, such as adding a super during a honey flow (not speaking to the foundation in the super though), or replacing a queen that died of natural causes.

3. The catch all, or everything that clearly isn't a treatment, but perhaps clearly isn't NOT a treatment.

Once we get a third category, we can discuss why it should or should not be listed in categories 1 or 2.

Getting some issues off the table completely is the only way I see this discussion going anywhere, without being 43 pages long.

[Kingfisher Apiaries]

Read my signer. That is what I believe.

Mike

[honeyshack]

I, just my two cents look at it differntly. I will admit I read the first 6 posts only so if someone has posted the same....

I look at treatments as any sort of medication....even sugar dusting and EO's. Treatments are used to help increase the hives health. Like treating cows for footrot, worms, vaccinations. This has it's own line when filing farm taxes....its called vet fees and medication.

Things like pollen patties and syrup ( non medicated) I look at as nutrition. Nutrition is apart of every day life whether the bees gather it or we give it to them. For example in cows...pasture, hay and silage or grain, salt and mineral....nutrition even when filing farm taxes this has it's own category.

Any type of manipulations of hives, be it supering, pulling honey, moving frames, splitting is classed as management tools....like calving cows, moving cows to pasture, pasture rotations, bull turn out and bringing in.


It is how it is defined with cows and such.

Treatment free means, to me, anything...and i mean anything added to a hive to clear up nosema, mites, viruses etc.
Nutrition is a different ball of wax.

edit:
Just read the whole thread.

[deknow]

"treatment free" is a term we use quite often (in posts, in our book, in talks to bee clubs, etc). perhaps "input free" would be a more accurate term for what we describe.

i would agree with everything on barry's original list....and i'd add esential oils (in general, a few are named specifically), and sugar/hfcs feeding.

i would make a distinction between "treatments" (to "fix problems") and "management" (for production).

some things could be either, depending on context (ie, splitting to reduce varroa is a treatment, splitting to increase is management).

deknow

[deknow]

IPM has _nothing_ to do with what treatments are used....IPM can include the harshest and most toxic of synthetic chemicals.....the term loosely describes under what circumstances what treatments should or can be used.

deknow

[bigbearomaha]

I obviously strongly disagree with that. The EPA and most, if not all, Dept's of Ag disagree as well.

not the part about the possibility of chemicals being added, I said as much earlier. but that IPM does contain components of multiple control methods, up to and including the possibility of pesticide chemicals.


EDIT: I include this definition and link to the EPA website about IPM... (Bold emphasis my own)

# What is IPM?

Integrated Pest Management (IPM) is an effective and environmentally sensitive approach to pest management that relies on a combination of common-sense practices. IPM programs use current, comprehensive information on the life cycles of pests and their interaction with the environment. This information, in combination with available pest control methods, is used to manage pest damage by the most economical means, and with the least possible hazard to people, property, and the environment.

The IPM approach can be applied to both agricultural and non-agricultural settings, such as the home, garden, and workplace. IPM takes advantage of all appropriate pest management options including, but not limited to, the judicious use of pesticides. In contrast, organic food production applies many of the same concepts as IPM but limits the use of pesticides to those that are produced from natural sources, as opposed to synthetic chemicals.

Big Bear