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  1. #1
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    Default Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    Now, a unique partnership — of military scientists and entomologists — appears to have achieved a major breakthrough: identifying a new suspect, or two.

    From New York Times:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/07/sc...wt&twt=nytimes

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    Summary

    Its a virus/fungi combo (they think) detected in RNA based test. Alot of blah blah blah.....with nothing more than what most already know or thought.

    Another 5 years and they will identify it...virus means vac. of bees...how you do that? Fungi well thats easy.

    Oh they did say cold wet dark areas were part of the reason and it starts in the bees digestive track.....future will tell.

    Only being a smart A cause I always hate seeing we are almost there...kinda like HIV/AIDS Vac. Still waiting on that one too.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    Since they say the virus is not treatable.

    Treat the fungus, called N. ceranae. Nosema ceranae

    At least we can fight that.



    wkinne
    Last edited by wkinne; 10-06-2010 at 07:21 PM.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    I think that is one of the issues. We know the body or in this case the bee can only cure the virus......as for the fungi, I would rarely treat in an extreme case. The only way for a body/bee to become immune is to be exposed. Exposure is important and they should proceed with treating the fungi with natural resources and not chemical medications. Finding the cause of the fungi and limit that will decrease the fungi, with minimal exposure maybe one day we can have a bee that can fight off this like life body/bee is suppose too.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    The New York Times article is relatively incomplete. The combination found is listed, Nosema C. However they do not list the Virus which is Varroa destructor-1

    Research report can be read here:
    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0013181

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    Quote Originally Posted by Beekeeper's hubby View Post
    The New York Times article is relatively incomplete. The combination found is listed, Nosema C. However they do not list the Virus which is Varroa destructor-1

    Research report can be read here:
    http://www.plosone.org/article/info:...l.pone.0013181

    keep reading... Varroa destructor-1 was simply found in the US (allong with the kakugo virus) but they did not link either of those viruses to CCD, nor was that the major discovery which was a DNA virus rather than the RNA Varroa destructor-1 virus. The DNA virus that they have linked to CCD is currently unidentified but appears to be similar to IIV-24 and IIV-6 and may actually be a mutation of one of those two.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    Here's an excerpt from the Jerry Bromenshank, et. al., paper: "Iridovirus and Microsporidian Linked to Honey Bee Colony Decline" .

    We used Mass spectrometry-based proteomics (MSP) to identify and quantify thousands of proteins from healthy and collapsing bee colonies. MSP revealed two unreported RNA viruses in North American honey bees, Varroa destructor-1 virus and Kakugo virus, and identified an invertebrate iridescent virus (IIV) (Iridoviridae) associated with CCD colonies. Prevalence of IIV significantly discriminated among strong, failing, and collapsed colonies. In addition, bees in failing colonies contained not only IIV, but also Nosema. Co-occurrence of these microbes consistently marked CCD in (1) bees from commercial apiaries sampled across the U.S. in 2006–2007, (2) bees sequentially sampled as the disorder progressed in an observation hive colony in 2008, and (3) bees from a recurrence of CCD in Florida in 2009.
    What's unusuall about this paper is the use of MSP to find a correlation between IIV, Nocema c., and CCD. It's refreshingly different from the usual RT-PCR/PCR, microarray, etc., methodologies.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    Everybody wants their grants renewed. Sorry,,,,Lipservice IMHO

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    It is always interesting to learn who is behind these studies. Good grief! It now holds absolutely no weight. I'd rather see studies from unbiased sources.

    The study, written in collaboration with Army scientists at the Edgewood Chemical Biological Center outside Baltimore, analyzed the proteins of afflicted bees using a new Army software system. The Bayer pesticides, however, go unmentioned.

    What the Times article did not explore -- nor did the study disclose -- was the relationship between the study's lead author, Montana bee researcher Dr. Jerry Bromenshenk, and Bayer Crop Science. In recent years Bromenshenk has received a significant research grant from Bayer to study bee pollination. Indeed, before receiving the Bayer funding, Bromenshenk was lined up on the opposite side: He had signed on to serve as an expert witness for beekeepers who brought a class-action lawsuit against Bayer in 2003. He then dropped out and received the grant.


    http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/08/news...tune/index.htm

    and here is another article that gives insight to some of the "drive" behind this research.

    http://www.grist.org/article/food-20...wrong-on-bees/

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    The study only holds "absolutely no weight" if you've already decided that Pesticides Are The Cause Period And Nothing Else Matters. It may well be that pesticide presence was not accounted for in the study; it may well be that the reason pesticide presence was not accounted for is that the scientist in question didn't want his funding to dry up. But the documented presence of IIV and Nosema c. in CCD bees is still scientifically-useful data. I think that instead of simply burning this paper as propaganda, it would be more constructive to encourage similar studies with the same methodology, minus the Bayer funding, to see if the results are similar.

    If you ask me, the Bayer funding isn't nearly this paper's biggest problem:

    Eban reports something the Times piece doesn't: that Bromenshenk's consulting company, Bee Alert Technology, is developing diagnostic tools for "various bee ailments." The company stands to profit from curing bee diseases -- and thus it's rather convenient that Bromenshenk has published research that points the finger towards "treatable" conditions, rather than pesticides, as the primary culprit in bee deaths.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    Any time there is a conflict of interest the information is useless. If the researcher, in this case Dr. Jerry Bromenshenk, withholds information, such as where his funding comes from, then why would anyone trust anything else he has to say. Just receiving funding from Bayer might not be the papers biggest problem but add the fact that he stands to gain a lot financially if he proves his theory correct along with the fact that he is inconsistent as to which theory he believes (hence why he once stood on the side of the beekeepers believing pesticides played a role in their hives collapse).


    Don't get confused, just because I doubt this biased piece of research doesn't mean I believe pesticides are the cause of CCD. I'm waiting eagerly to learn the cause as are most others, but I know that research only counts when it comes from an unbiased source and this man is far from unbiased so I will restate, this information holds no weight, instead it is all suspect!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    Quote Originally Posted by The Soap Pixie View Post
    Any time there is a conflict of interest the information is useless. If the researcher, in this case Dr. Jerry Bromenshenk, withholds information, such as where his funding comes from, then why would anyone trust anything else he has to say.
    But that's not what happened, is it? AFIAK, Bromenshenk has publicly admitted he received a grant from Bayer; he only insists it wasn't for this project.

    There's a baby somewhere in that bathwater, is all I'm saying.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    Here's a piece detailing some other flaws in the study itself.

    http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010...ee_experts.php

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    melliferal,

    Well he'd be a fool not to admit where his funding comes from when the facts are already known, being reported to the public and people are questioning it. I call that getting caught with ones pants down. and I believe he didn't use any money received from Bayer for this project

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    Quote Originally Posted by WLC View Post
    Here's a piece detailing some other flaws in the study itself.

    http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010...ee_experts.php
    I wrote Leonard Foster, bee expert and chief apiarist at the University of British Columbia, to ask his thoughts on the matter. For Foster, the main concern isn't the Bayer funding, he said in an email, "in part because the preponderance of evidence from other groups as well indicates that at least one, if not two or more infectious diseases are responsible for CCD. That's not to say, though, that pesticides might not play a role."

    Of more concern to him is that the researchers have not released some of the "most essential data supporting their conclusions." From what Foster can tell, the authors may have "made some rather serious (honest) mistakes when interpreting their data."

    Those errors could include the researchers having mistaken "bee proteins for something else, such as IIV proteins," as well as the "method they used to quantify the level of virus between the CCD and no-CCD colonies—its accuracy is very low and so this could also lead to erroneous conclusions."
    Now that's something a bit more tangible and useful than simply crying "shill".

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    Read this deal 2 times now!
    I think we all probably knew just as much about this problem before this collection of ideas or what ever we should call it were put into print.
    As one nationally well known bee researcher quoted to me a few years back
    " our bread is now buttered on both sides with grant & research dollars from large companies "

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    I learned a thing or two from this whole situation.

    MSP is a research methodology that has it's own pitfalls. IIV can kill Honeybees and is in the US. Make sure your data is available before you publish. Don't forget to disclose any $s that you received from the likes of Bayer before you publish. Avoid being featured by the NYT when you do finally publish.

    Finally, make sure that an award-winning, investigative journalist isn't on your tail after your published study is a headline in the NYT.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    I learned a few things too.

    - One journalist in a prominent position can more or less destroy a person's reputation in one short article as long as the message is one that people want to hear.

    - It doesn't matter how many lies you pack into an article, people who want to believe it *will* believe it.

    - The speed of the dissemination of misinformation on the internet these days is truly amazing. Try Googling 'bromenshenk bayer'.

    Jerry denies out of hand three of the main planks of that article: the grant from Bayer, the failure to disclose funding, and the advantage his technology would gain if pathogens rather than pesticides are the main causal agent.

    I'm sincerely hoping that Katherine Eban learns some lessons from this too:

    - That when a man who is the subject of a defamatory article you've written and shown him tells you point blank that it is utterly wrong, and why, you really ought to listen.

    - That destroying a leading scientist's reputation in such a public way can be very, very expensive.

    G.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    There's nothing that Eban wrote that I would call a lie. I think that the correct term is 'spin'. Jerry was simply an easy target.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Possible Cause of Bee Die-Off Is Found

    Here are three statements in the article that are completely denied by Jerry, who also has said that he tried to correct the report before it was published but the reporter wasn't interested in doing so (in which case this jumps from spin to deceit):

    'In recent years Bromenshenk has received a significant research grant from Bayer to study bee pollination.'

    'Bromenshenk's company, Bee Alert Technology, which is developing hand-held acoustic scanners that use sound to detect various bee ailments, will profit more from a finding that disease, and not pesticides, is harming bees.'

    'The Times reporter who authored the recent article, Kirk Johnson, responded in an e-mail that Dr. Bromenshenk "did not volunteer his funding sources."'

    Jerry said this on Bee-L:

    'The Fortune reporter knows full well:

    (1) the onion seed pollination work was done for a large U.S. company,
    there was no grant received from Bayer,

    (2) the acoustic recorder is better at pesticide detection than pathogens
    - the latter part of the development is an ongoing research project still
    being funded by USDA.

    (3) we weren't asked by NYT to disclose our funding sources, it wasn't
    brought up, and there was no need since this information is required by PloS
    ONE before they will even review a paper. You can find it on the PloS ONE
    site.'

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