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Will you continue to purchase packages/nucs from southern GA

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 49.1%
  • No

    Votes: 18 31.6%
  • Not sure

    Votes: 11 19.3%
23K views 53 replies 34 participants last post by  peacekeeperapiaries 
#1 ·
It was reported yesterday that AHB were found in Georgia. What will that mean to the Queen and Package industry in Georgia?

Johnny
 
#32 ·
Re: Africanized bees in GA

I had a hive this spring that was just down right mean. Foolishly made a split from this hive and the new hive was just as mean. I'm talking tagged 3 times just taking the outter cover off. Silver lining was they were crazy productive. Real honey machines. I split again and they superceeded. Now I can refill feeders without veil. Maybe you just have a spicy queen. Swap her out.
 
#35 ·
AHBs in GA - Man dead

Haven't been on the site in a while so I don't know if this has been posted already.

If true, it makes me want to rethink purchasing packages/nucs from southern GA apiaries. What do ya'll think?



Man Dies After Killer Bee Attack
Africanized Bees Confirmed To Have Caused Death
POSTED: 12:11 pm EDT October 21, 2010
UPDATED: 12:40 pm EDT October 21, 2010
Email Print
Comments (11)ALBANY, Ga. -- Agriculture officials say a Georgia man died after being swarmed by killer bees.

Georgia Agriculture Commission Tommy Irvin said Thursday that tests show Africanized "killer" bees were responsible for the death of 73-year-old Curtis Davis in Dougherty County.

Davis was stung hundreds of times when his bulldozer hit an old wooden porch post where the bees had built a giant hive. The insects swarmed him.

Irvin said the tests showed the insects were a hybrid of African and European honeybees, sometimes called "killer bees." The bees are extremely defensive, swarm in greater numbers than typical European honeybees and sting with little provocation.

The first swarm of Africanized bees in the U.S. was discovered outside the small Texas town of Hidalgo in 1990. They have gradually spread to other states including northern Florida several years ago, but have not been previously confirmed in Georgia, according to the Georgia Beekeepers Association.

State officials said they will continue trapping and monitoring bee swarms to identify Africanized honeybees.

A web posting by the Georgia Beekeepers Association said that they are “confidant that (Africanized bees) will at least reach the Atlanta area.”
 
#36 ·
Re: AHBs in GA - Man dead

I can't really say from a beekeeper point of view, but just looking at it--it was one case, with a wild swarm. Wouldn't there be a MUCH lower chance of an AHB package coming your way? I mean, for one, the guy shaking the package would probably notice (would they care enough to cull the package?), and two, aren't most breeding apiaries surrounded by their own drone producing hives? Even if a queen mated with a small fraction of AHB drones of her total drone count, would that affect the temperment of the entire hive?

Mostly just asking rather than saying, but to change an entire operation off of a single unrelated incident seems a little overboard.
 
#37 ·
Re: AHBs in GA - Man dead

AHBs are not like European bees. They swarm multiple times. Much more often than what we are use to. They swarming is a natural way for them to replicate and doesn't seem to be associated with overcrowding. Actually it seems the more plentiful the natural resources, the more the swarm.

AHB swarms appear to be like any other bees. It's after they take up residence and have a colony to protect that you actually see the difference.

At least these are my understandings. So if a queen breeds with an AHB drone and the queen is them caged for a package, it would seem that it would not be realized until the queen starts laying once the package has been installed and there are brood, honey, comb, etc. to protect.

While it is just one occurance that has been noted, that has no bearing as to how many AHB colonies are in the area or AHB Drones are in Drone Zones.

I have decided one way or another as to whether or not I will stop purchasing bees from southern GA. But it gives me a reason to ensure I am getting what I expect.
 
#38 ·
Re: AHBs in GA - Man dead

Wouldn't there be a MUCH lower chance of an AHB package coming your way? I mean, for one, the guy shaking the package would probably notice (would they care enough to cull the package?), and two, aren't most breeding apiaries surrounded by their own drone producing hives?

The problem is the queen breeders, not the package producers. AHB are known to invade a European hive, kill the European queen, and take over the hive.

AHB swarms are calm. Small AHB hives are fairly calm. You don't hit the problem stage until the colony starts getting large.

What happens if an AHB queen takes over a small breeder queen hive, and someone doesn't notice and grafts eggs? What happens if an AHB queen takes over the drone producing hives and you flood the area with AHB drones?

How hot of a bee do you want?
Even if you can tolerate a hotter bee, do you want to buy a queen (or package) that can't overwinter in areas with a winter? AHB don't handle winter yet.
 
#41 ·
Re: AHBs in GA - Man dead

It's funny (strange) to see beekeepers paranoid about honey bees.

Due to inherent stubbornness, or determination, I kept (Tucson's version of AHB) for more than a decade, I did get a feel for many of the unique behavioral traits that are said to belong to this "hybrid swarm". If I'd had a huge colony of them, living beneath a porch or building, then after I disturbed them (intentionally or not), I might expect to have them respond defensively. But, wait, I've seen bees absolutely guaranteed to be non-AHB respond in very similar defensive ways when their large colonies were disturbed. And too there actually was a huge colony/nest of AHB living within a few feet of my back fence and I only realized they were there after the mobile home they were living under had been moved away. It seems they were a source of many swarms that subsequently became colonies of mine.

These days I import queens known for the docile behavior of their workers, and breed from them. This has significantly changed the entire dynamic of my apiaries. But, since I can't yet afford to run my queen rearing operation in a remote location populated only with drones of selected pedigree, the open mating still produces a few queens that exhibit some less than desirable traits, but fortunately very few.

--
I say all this because I want to emphasize that a "hot" colony of EHB could just as easily have produced the same sorry result.

What I'm really trying to say is, why does it matter what "race" the hot bees are. Any "hot" bees should be dealt with in the same way. Why does it matter if they are AHB or are not AHB? Why bother to test/analyze if their extreme defensiveness stems from Africa or Europe. If they exhibit undesirable traits, simply treat them appropriately for their behavior and be done with them. Requeen or eliminate. Once the genetics that fostered the inappropriate behavior has been eliminated, why does it matter where it originated?

Concerning packages: The behavior of the bees that make up a package are no indicator of the colony the package will later become. Most, if not all packages are headed by queens that are not the mothers of the package bees they are shipped with.
 
#42 · (Edited)
Re: AHBs in GA - Man dead

Countryboy,
All the AHB swarms I've ever encountered in my vicinity have been extremely defensive. While they are still in the air, having just been issued, after they first cluster on a stationary object, and basically always. I hived many swarms like this near my home (I never managed to keep one in hive, unless they chose to go there on their own). To see if I could do it, I once retrieved a basket ball sized swarm, without using a veil, from about twenty-five miles away, in the heart of town. They had just clustered on a low bush, about three feet high. I knocked them into a deep 5-frame nuc which had its bottom side screened. I received about a dozen stings, mostly on my face, ears, and neck, but some on my arms, legs, and hands. I had two empty combs in the box with them. I fed them and kept them confined to the nuc for about four days. On the day I gave them an entrance I confirmed that their queen was there, and that she had laid at least one frame of eggs, some of which, had begun to hatch. The next morning I noticed very little activity around their entrance and discovered that they had absconded, leaving behind the eggs and just hatched larva. A couple of days later I discovered that this swarm had taken over another nuc, three nucs over from where I had them. They had ousted the virgin queen and had made this broodless nuc their own. I left them alone for a few months, until I was absolutely certain of the undesirable behavior (their true "personality"), then I killed their queen and replaced her with a cultured queen cell in a cell protector.

honeyshack,
Supposing your scenario is valid. How likely are you to maintain and even breed from a colony that exhibits undesirable traits, no matter what their geographic origins are? If you received an undesirable colony from Nova Scotia, Canada, would you be more likely to tolerate their bad behaviors than you would be if they were shipped to you from Georgia, U.S.A. ?

I'm here in Tucson, Arizona, U.S.A. I import queens from several queen breeders. I breed from them, the daughters are open mated. I grow nucs from these open mated daughter queens. If any of them produce colonies with undesirable traits - I promptly drop those queens into a jar of everclear and replace them with another cultured queen cell. It doesn't matter to me where they obtained their undesirable traits --> they aren't here any more.
 
#45 ·
Re: AHBs in GA - Man dead

This was just a poll. I personally answered unsure.

I know that "hot" hives can be "tamed" by requeening. I have had several hot hives in the past. I didn't requeen them because they were really good honey/comb producers. But they were not like AHBs in that they attack in large groups though one hive was somewhat relentless in chasing me.

But I don't want to have to go the extra expense of purchasing a second queen that is determined to have strong AHB traits. It wasn't mentioned if these AHB colonies made queen cells immediately upon the removal of their queen. I would think that a new queen put in immediately would not be received by the colony. I know you put it in a protective cell but how long did it take before the colony decided to accept her? How often did you have to remove queen cells until the queen was accepted?

It's better to know that AHBs are now in southern GA. At least I/you can be aware of the possibility of a AHB queen or drones. Drones to me would be the worst senerio. Especially if they are in packages miles from me. I would have no idea that there is a possibility that in the future a swarm or supercedure queen could be now a AHB colony.
 
#48 ·
Re: AHBs in GA - Man dead

Well I personnaly erred on side of caution. Last thing I need is a AHB tainted hive stinging my neighbors or kids that play all around my house and beeyard.

I would love to know some actual statistics on whats the likelyhood of getting and AHB tainted queen or package. 1 in 1,000,000....???

What precautions are being taken?

What individual states will do?
 
#49 ·
Re: AHBs in GA - Man dead

if you have kids that "play around your beeyard", there is a distinct possibility that kids will get stung...ahb or ehb.

keeping bees (even ehb) dramatically increases the chance that a neighbor will get stung...and also dramatically increase the chance that you will be blamed for the behaviour of any stinging insect in the vicinity.

certainly you don't want overly defensive (or aggressive) bees in a neighborhood. i'm just not sure why anyone cares if they are ehb or ahb.

deknow
 
#50 ·
Re: AHBs in GA - Man dead

I think people care because it does change hobbist and beekeeping locations. Most people who keep AHB keep there bees in locations away from populations. Fact is it was a poll and stating our opinion on the matter is all it is. Agree or disagree, its just our opinion. It has put a hold on me buying packaged bees next year and I was planning to buy around 30 to 50 packages or nucs.

I think the key has been for years is to stop the spread of AHB, am I wrong on that?
 
#51 ·
Re: AHBs in GA - Man dead

USCBeeMan; we are dealing with the same species of bee here as a normal Italian bee, Apis Mellifera. The AHB have over the eons developed their defensive nature from eons of animals and humans invading their hives and carrying away their combs and honey. They are no different to requeen; place a cell or queen cage in and they will accept it most of the time; no different than your present types of bees. Living in an AHB area, FL, we haven't changed anything about how we do our business. 50 years ago, if we had a hot hive we requeened; what's different today? Joseph Clemens has had AHB a lot longer than I and his technique is the same; hot hive, requeen. Real hot hive, kill them. All the whining and moaning you guys are doing doesn't help you one whit! Practice good beekeeping and you won't have problems with AHB. BTW, quit reading newspaper accounts and you'll have a much better handle on realities of AHB.
 
#52 ·
Re: AHBs in GA - Man dead

Ken,
I voted yes. Even though I began grafting this past summer, I still plan to order some bees from south Georgia next spring. Most likely I will be getting queen cells, but the gene transfer you are concerned about would still be an issue. Since I want to peak at about 50 hives this year, I plan to be pretty severe in culling undesirable traits, including temperament. But importing bees from the south is a valuable tool to improve our local genetics. We just have to be responsible beekeepers, regardless of the source of the bees we are working with.
 
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