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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Concrete, WA, USA
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    761

    Default One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    we lots a lot of hives last year to CCD - most were in feb and March but i had a few in July - really sad to go out and find a hand full of bees in a hive after they were booming just weeks prior..
    But the thing that gets me is if a disease can kill off 95% of the hive - Why is the Queen Never affected by the CCD???

    she is always there and with no sign of disease, so why would it only effect the worker bees

  2. #2

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    If it mainly effects a bee's ability to navigate and so the foragers are unable to find their way home...it makes sense that since the queen doesn't leave the hive she won't show the 'symptoms'.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
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    2,303

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    Seen the same hundreds of times. Maybe the queen, being the most important individual in the colony, just has more natural resistance to pathogens.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Panama City, Florida, USA
    Posts
    556

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    I would lean more toward the aspect that the queen is "fed" regurgitated food by her attendants. Therefore her food is "processed" more than the general hive population. This would make one tend to believe that CCD is related to diet and pathogens introduced in the diet.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Townsend, TN
    Posts
    206

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    does the queen always stay behind with CCD? I had a weak nuc obscond the other day, had I not witnessed them flying away I would have probably suspected CCD. when i opened up the nuc there was a hand full of bees left and of course all of the brood was there with no signs of disease. and I couldent find out why they obsconded, I had an observation hive abscond once but it was overrun with small hive beetles. but this nuc wasnt.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Panama City, Florida, USA
    Posts
    556

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    I think the final definitive symptom is that the abandoned stores are not robbed or robbing is at least delayed several days.

    Of course the queen's presence could simply be a result of her inability to fly.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lindsay Ontario
    Posts
    47

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    >Why is the Queen Never affected by the CCD???

    But she is, it's just not obviously evident

    In late sept06 a majority of the Qs quit laying 2-3wks early

    The next spring a Q may have been infected in her ovaries
    since all brood died as 1-1.5d larvae

    Last fall an new Q quit laying after 3wks, beginning of sept
    She squeezed out a few (100) drone eggs mid oct
    No other brood. She didn't survive winter, but hive did

    I've seen replacement attempts be very extended in developement
    times (larvae) and no virgins survived pupation

    dave

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lancaster, Ky. / Frostproof Fl.
    Posts
    984

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    well lets see.....I know alot will disagree but the neonictinoid insectide kills by affecting the insects nervous system and immune system It kills by affecting the insects behavior. I'll guarantee the gentlemen from Auger hole Mnwill disagree, but I think thats our problem along with virus carried by mites causing problems with the bees immune system comprimized by insectidide.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Knox County, Ohio
    Posts
    2,694

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    Our state apiarist said that if you feed a developing bee larva 20 milliliters of imidacloprid (neonicotinoid) it will be disoriented as an adult. The only way they have been able to get a bee larva to eat 20 ml of imidacloprid is basically to force feed it.

    The latest research on CCD says the iridescent virus does not reproduce above 80 degrees IIRC, and it thrives in lower temperatures. This makes sense why you are seeing problems in cooler weather.

    Squish the queen in a CCD hive and look at her internal organs. Are they a bluish green or purplish color? This is reportedly a sign of the new insect iridescent virus.

    Does the queen get affected by nosema ceranae? Check her. It appears that the IIV works in conjunction with nosema ceranae to cause CCD.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,303

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    When tracheal mites first arrived here, we saw the same scenario in late winter- a tiny cluster of bees with queen and the hive still heavy with honey. Sometimes there would be dead bees piled up, other times none. Usually you could find lots of crawlers.

    My worst recent losses came from wild areas with no agriculture at all. Drought, combined with Nosema C and those invisible viruses . I think any amount of varroa added to that mix and
    s.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
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    2,303

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    >>Are they a bluish green or purplish color? This is reportedly a sign of the new insect iridescent virus.<<

    Thats interesting-first I've heard of that.

    Queens certainly used to get Nosema apis-these were often superseded quickly. This could explain a lot of the queen problems we've been having lately with purchased queens.(along with the crappy mating weather this spring).

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Nelson, South Island, New Zealand
    Posts
    532

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    Dont know if this link has been posted on the forum yet.
    It makes for very interesting reading!

    "What A Scientist Didn't Tell The New York Times About Honeybee Deaths"

    http://money.cnn.com/2010/10/08/news...tune/index.htm

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,640

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    Quote Originally Posted by Countryboy View Post
    Our state apiarist said that if you feed a developing bee larva 20 milliliters of imidacloprid (neonicotinoid) it will be disoriented as an adult.
    something is off here. 20ml? fed to a larvae? of imidacloprid?

    1. i don't think a larvae can eat 20ml of anything...that's getting close to an ounce. i expect ul (microliters) were meant? 20 ml is 20 cubic centimeters...an entire 5.4mm cell is about .3ml in volume (rough estimate)...so a larvae can eat 7 full cells of food and only poop once?

    2. the larvae has to get nutrition (protein especially...it grows 600+ times in the first 6 days)...it can't get this from imidacloprid...it must be fed imidacloprid in some concentration in food.

    perhaps you can get some clarification here (and someone to check my math).

    deknow

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Knox County, Ohio
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    2,694

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    Our state apiarist was the speaker at our last club meeting. She said 20 milliliters - she made it a point to say that it was a very large amount and how difficult it was to get the larva to eat that much.

    With that said, I was not impressed with her. She also recommends terramycin for treating varroa mites, and she says that all colony losses are CCD. (even winter losses) When I pointed out that other things can kill mites, she said it makes the numbers look better to call all losses CCD when they are trying to get government money to study CCD.

    Our state apiarist is part time. Every other day she works in the pathology lab at OSU, and the in between days she works as the head apiary inspector for the Dept of Ag.

    Part of her beekeeping presentation was also dedicated to teaching us about being on the lookout for some beetle that is killing maple trees.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    3,640

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    She ought to be fired (at least).

    deknow

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    ...if this presentation was recorded, i'd love a copy

    deknow

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    New Mexico reported the lowest average loss (14.4%) and
    total loss (2.9%), while Ohio had the highest average and total
    loss (61.4 and 71.5%, respectively).
    http://maarec.psu.edu/CCDPpt/CCDJuly07ABJArticle-1.pdf

    I'm going to forward this information to the resarchers I'm in contact with that are working on CCD, as this is certainly relevant to their work. I posted this info to Bee-L, but it has not passed moderation

    deknow

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Poplar Bluff, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    2,306

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    Countryboy, sounds like you need a new state apiary inspector... that is just ridiculous.
    Regards,
    Steven
    "If all you have is a hammer, the whole world is a nail." - A.H. Maslow

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,640

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    This report sounds different than your account.

    Of note is the second section, where the county inspector finds no mites in an entire county?

    deknow

    Kokosing Valley Beekeepers Association
    Ohio's state Apiarist, Barbara Bloetcher, spoke to twenty-seven members and guests at the August 17 meeting of the Kokosing Valley Beekeepers Association. She gave an update on bee diseases. Colony Collapse Disorder is now being described a...s having these three symptoms: only the queen and a small cluster of attendants remain in the hive, the hive's honey stores are not being robbed by other bees and, although it can occur anytime from summer to early spring, it is most often noticed in late fall or early spring. Barbara said that there are 55 registered beekeepers in Knox County with 74 registered apiaries. There is no American foul brood reported in Knox County in 2010. She also covered some Apiary Laws including: bees or bee equipment must be inspected prior to their movement, sale or auction; 24 hours prior to spraying with a pesticide labeled to be toxic to bees, person(s) applying the pesticide must inform the beekeeper of his intention to spray; and all beehives must be either on the beekeeper's property or well-marked if the apiary is elsewhere.

    In his report Knox County Bee Inspector Eric Simpson said that he has seen no mites in the county and that there has been a good yield of honey per hive.

    The next meeting is scheduled for October 19 at 7:00 p.m. at 1025 Harcourt Road in Mount Vernon. Brian Farmer will relate his experiences producing queens with simple methods that are oriented toward the hobbyist and small scale beekeeper.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Knox County, Ohio
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    2,694

    Default Re: One thing ive noticed with the CCD

    Yep, that was the presentation. It didn't make the press release of when I told her it sounded like a scam by calling all losses CCD, and she pretty much agreed.

    Her contact info is:

    Barbara Bloetscher
    Ohio Dept. Agriculture (614) 644-5839
    Bbloetscher@agri.ohio.gov

    (Excerpt from club minutes of August meeting)
    Ohio State Apiarist, Barbara Bloetscher, was the guest speaker. She told us that there are over 3700 registered beekeepers in Ohio with 5946 apiaries. Approximately 10% are not registered. The money collected from the Apiary Registration Fee does not go into an apiary fund, rather it goes into a general fund. She encouraged the club to write letters to our Congressman recording club activities pertinent to beekeeping so they will know how important beekeeping is so more of the budget will go toward the Apiary Program. Fourteen Ohio counties have discontinued bee inspection due to funding cuts; consequently, we can't keep track of American foul brood. Also, less data from fewer inspectors equals less support monetarily in the future.

    Barbara also talked about pesticides and how their use is related to bee health. She gave updates on Ohio Bee Laws and Colony Collapse Disease, mentioning that Ohio, at 60% loss, had one of the greatest numbers of loss from CCD in 2006-2008. She also announced that the Asian Longhorn Beetle has invaded Ohio and is killing maple trees. If you see an ALB, contact the Ohio State Department of Agriculture.


    Mites? What are those? Should I be concerned about mites? (out of sight, and out of mind?) My county inspector can't find any, and it took him 3 hours to inspect the 15 hives I registered. Of course, his ONLY method of looking for mites is to pull a couple of capped drone brood out and look for mites on them.
    At the August meeting, he said he still has not been able to inspect all the hives in the county, as he only inspects on days of good weather, scheduling around his day job.

    A first year beekeeper I am mentoring was given some old boxes and some old drawn large cell comb...by September, her hive started from a package this spring had developed the worst varroa infestation I have ever seen. Interestingly, I am letting her babysit a Kenya TBH of mine. It's at the same exact location, but has no noticeable mites. It was started from a swarm this year, and produced over 50 pounds of surplus honey too.

    Countryboy, sounds like you need a new state apiary inspector... that is just ridiculous.

    This IS the new state apiary inspector. When the last guy retired, there was talk of getting rid of the position. They ended up hiring this lady part-time.

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