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Thread: what is RAW

  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    3,541

    Default Re: what is RAW

    beekeepers generally define raw as "any honey heated to the temperature that I heat my honey to".

    there is absolutely no standard, and there is no consensus within the honey industry.

    people who actually care about raw foods are generally looking for products that never get heated above either 104f or 115f.

    if you want to be upfront and let the customer know what they are actually getting, it is best to put specifics on the label (ie, what temp you heat your honey to).

    if your goal is to sell stuff to people that want "raw food" but don't care if they are getting what they think they are getting, then "raw" is what you want to use, regardless of how you heat your honey.

    deknow

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Tamworth, NSW Australia
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    259

    Default Re: what is RAW

    Good Summation, deknow. We are dealing with semantics now, so go your hardest.

    I ask my customers who want only RAW honey, "What is your take on fixing a lanky teenager who is said to be RAW BONED?"

    Any beekeeper who exports his honey directly to overseas markets declares his honey as RAW. In this context, it means honey that has not been refined, somewhat like the teenager. It means it is in the same from as it was when it left its original producer and can be legally sold on any market as RAW HONEY. Now the simple fact that it may have been boiled is by the way. The simple fact that most of the impurities have floated off, the same. The simple fact half of it may have been boiled and half of it not, is, yep you guessed it, it is by the way.

    Ever get a raw deal?

    Ever gotten sprung in the raw?

    Beats cooking your goose anyway!

    My honey is "Cool Processed." Ten percent of it may have been up to 90 Deg.C if it was next to the uncapping knife, but the other 90 percent didn't get up to body heat, if it was processed in winter.

    So deknow has it right. If the customer wants raw honey, give him raw honey, not a raw deal, as he may be just a simple raw boned teenager. Anyway, when selling honey from a Farmer's Market (out in the blazing sun) I tell people in jest, how can my honey be raw when it is sitting here now cooking in the sun?

    These folk who speak authoratively about 140 Deg. F............ do they have libraries full of research documents to back this up? Those who mention 165 Deg. F ........ where do they pick that figure from? Are all honey types likely to melt at the same degree? And what about the report that the oxydase actually rebuilds itself over time?

    Did the one lonely expert back in 1912 who declared raw honey at 140 Deg F (or whatever number he picked) make a judgement call, or did he work from exhaustive testing? I have never seen any expert refer to actually scientifically derived data on how much damange, which properties were damaged the most, and were any of the properties completely lost, or only partially so.

    Oxydase is one our enemies like to highlight, because it is the one supplied by the bee. It will be in all honey, yes, even if the bees were fed High Fructose Corn Syrup. The enormous body of information that remains asleep (and who would waken it?) pertains to all the compounds, minerals, nutrients and poisons that are supplied by the plant kingdom. Obviously these are far too complex, far too numerous and even elusive for anyone to want to discuss them. Might it be that some of them, maybe even that mythical one that cures cancer, may in fact be enhanced, augmented and potententised by the heating process?

    The suggestion that honey is valueless as a medicine if heated above any specific temperature is a complete fallacy, and perhaps even an outright lie. If anyone wants to test this for himself, simply bring a sample of honey up to 209 Deg. F, allow to cool, then apply it to a burn, a leison, or ingest it for a tummy ache, or any of the myriad other maladies we use honey for on a a daily basis.

    I heard a long story recently about some emminent scientist/priest who has declared most authoratively, "There is absolutely nothing in honey." This was, (I deduced) supposed to put paid to all those old wives tales about its healing properties. However, I sprang to attention with glee, at this news, as why would I want to injest honey that had additives in it? Honey does not need to have anything in it! Honey is honey, and as such it is the finest product the biosphere can offer us, regardless of all the compounds now being manufactured under the guise of medicine. When honey has 'somethin in it' it had better have an ingredients label on it too.

    Scientist/Priests can take the long jump. My honey is beautiful, it is raw, cool processed, not ultra filtered or any of those simple refinements that are done to honey to keep it from being too raw. So if you really want to get a raw deal, buy your honey from some faceless corporation.

    If I were picking a number (randomised and off the cuff like everybody else does) for the maximum temperature to heat honey to with the purpose of protecting the oxydase, I would pick (rounded) 140 Deg.F. This is about the temperature required to melt the beeswax. In Arizona, we occasionally had hives get so hot the combs would melt, and indeed, mother nature let that honey go to waste............... well, nearly.

    Ironically, though, myriad other life forms, animals, insects, etc., relished it when they found it, and I doubt if any one of them were poisoned by it.

    If our enemies had their way we would have to put the skull and crossbones on our honey. Why is this? It is simply that our product is too fierce a competitor for their snake oil and high tech medicines. They would lose a lot of income if our honey becomes once again the medicine of choice.

    Cooked honey is better than no honey!

    Cheers,

    JohnS
    Last edited by John Smith; 10-20-2010 at 08:10 PM. Reason: Originally wrote 160 Deg. Corrected to 140. It is about 60 Deg C.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Tamworth, NSW Australia
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    259

    Default Re: what is RAW

    ............... and something not to my attention then...............

    The current interest in what are known as Glyconutrients (various forms of sugars, especially long chain ones, aka polysaccharides) is highlighting how important sugars are to our health, especially as they are like passwords are to computers when our cells first meet and set up a communication line. When certain minor sugars are absent, the cells don't recognize the goodies from the baddies, hence we develop cancer etc.

    Ironically, sugars are VERY heat stable. So boiled honey is still a cheaper source of polysaccharides than expensive pills from a factory. The problem with marketing honey based on the polysaccharides is that no one honey contains them all (the essential ones) but a variety of floral types would go a long way toward covering the range.

    Michael Palmer, you got it right. Raw honey is still in the comb.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Honey Hive Farms, Winfield Missouri
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    358

    Default Re: what is RAW

    Honey Hive Farms,

    Raw honey is just what it sounds like. Our honey is taken from the hive, uncapped, extracted and then drains into a larger micron filter to get the bee parts and wax out.

    NOTE:
    No heat or to high of heat as it kill some of the good stuff within the honey
    Not boxing it with other honey, (mixing it with say honey from other sources would be a bonus)
    If our honey was any more raw it would have bee parts in it

    Tim Moore
    Honey Hive Farms "Saving the world one bee at a time"
    www.HoneyHiveFarms.com

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Columbia, MO
    Posts
    91

    Default Re: what is RAW

    Years ago, Richard Taylor once wrote that describing honey as Raw was like describing bananas as Boneless...it just doesn't fit. I tend to agree with him and avoid using the term.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ka'u Hawaii
    Posts
    169

    Default Re: what is RAW

    Well, the alternative to 'raw' is the old term 'pure', which one still sees out there in the market.
    I've always thought that it was acceptable to use a coarse kitchen strainer on honey and still consider it as raw as pollen and some fine wax still remains in it. Raw unheated honey, (mine anyways) will not pass through a very fine filter such as the 'micron' filters sold by Mann Lake. Again, I don't really disagree with Palmer's concept or the idea that heating to 95 degrees F is acceptable as that matches the temperature in the hive. But heating to 140 and calling it raw, as Johnny Mc would say, "You can't be serious"!
    Last edited by Gino45; 10-05-2013 at 09:11 AM.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Chesterfield, NH
    Posts
    480

    Default Re: what is RAW

    I say Comb honey



    BEE HAPPY Jim 134
    Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA.
    http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,200

    Default Re: what is RAW

    Quote Originally Posted by SWM View Post
    Years ago, Richard Taylor once wrote that describing honey as Raw was like describing bananas as Boneless...it just doesn't fit. I tend to agree with him and avoid using the term.
    I like it.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  9. #29
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
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    4,081

    Default Re: what is RAW

    I've read a couple definitions of raw honey, they both stated straining is OK but not filtered. One listed 110F as the max temp, the other said 115F.
    We sell all our liquid honey as raw, it brings a higher price than the ones in a grocery store.
    Dan

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    adair county, kentucky, usa
    Posts
    461

    Default Re: what is RAW

    What I prefer, and what I do with my honey is, nothing added, no heat other than the natural sun heat on my barn, and no filtering, just straining to get the big stuff out. It's easy that way, and it is about as close to natural as I can get, without having chunks of wax and an occasional bee floating around in it.

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