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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    England
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    37

    Default Thymol crystal dosage rate for Nosema

    Sorry if this has been asked before, I've had a search but can't find the answer.

    What is the acceptad rate of grams of thymol crystals in winter feed to control Nosema?

    i.e. grams per litre.

    TIA.

    Gordon.
    Gordon.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Dane County, WI.
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    3,721

    Default Re: Thymol crystal dosage rate for Nosema

    Here's one: "1 ounce thymol crystals dissolved in 5 fluid ounces of alcohol to be
    added to a winter feed mix of 1 cwt sugar in 7 gallons of water. For
    those of us who want slightly more modest quantities this equates
    roughly to one ounce of the thymol/alcohol solution to 1 gallon of a 2:1
    sugar/water solution (but do your own calculations!)." Post No. 4.

    Please read the more complete explaination and discussion here: > http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215806
    I don't use this, or know anything else about this treatment for Nosema.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,647

    Default Re: Thymol crystal dosage rate for Nosema

    A lot of people follow these measurements:

    http://www.scientificbeekeeping.com/...ask=view&id=45
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Clifford Township, PA
    Posts
    2,057

    Default Re: Thymol crystal dosage rate for Nosema

    But apparently not Randy Oliver anymore:

    "Update: this strength of thymolated syrup does not appear to control nosema! I am currently undertaking a trial at 3x strength. My current recommendation is to use FumagilB in syrup per label directions."

    Wayne
    Last edited by Barry; 09-16-2010 at 08:11 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    SOMERSET, ENGLAND
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    337

    Default Re: Thymol crystal dosage rate for Nosema

    3x Manley dose works very well against nosema....which works out at 1gm per 5 litre of syrup....even better if you also emulsify it with lecithin.

    Some more info in link...
    http://www.scialert.net/pdfs/pjbs/2005/1142-1145.pdf
    Last edited by beekuk; 09-16-2010 at 04:24 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Lynchburg, VA
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    2,530

    Default Re: Thymol crystal dosage rate for Nosema

    Emulsified thymol pre mix.

    30g thymol crystals placed in honey jar,add 5ml of isopropyl alcohol to the crystals,place jar into a water bath of boiling water to speed up the dissolving process.
    In another jar pour in 140 ml of boiling water and add 1 teaspoon of lecithin granules, stir well,and place this jar into a water bath of boiling water,stirring often for abot ten minutes or so until most of the lecithin granules have dissolved,you can then strain this mixture through a teastrainer or similar to remove any granules that have not dissolved fully,then simply add the dissolved thymol to this mix,and shake well,will look just like a jar of milk.
    To use add 5ml to each gallon of syrup and stir well,syrup will go milky,unlike when using the old original mix.
    If the mixture forms any crystals at a later date,tip into old small pan and reheat,do this outdoors.
    There are also other feed supplements availible such as vita feed,and nosevit ect,i have never tried these so cannot make any comment on them,but i will sure be sticking to what i know works well. http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/sho...1&postcount=44
    There is a complete thread on this at http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=702
    It's very interesting reading. I may try this. Has anyone else had good results with this approach?
    From each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution. Charles Koch

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Warrior, Alabama
    Posts
    1,068

    Default Re: Thymol crystal dosage rate for Nosema

    Quote Originally Posted by waynesgarden View Post
    But apparently not Randy Oliver anymore:

    My current recommendation is to use FumagilB in syrup per label directions."
    Wayne
    FumagilB has always worked for me. I Feed it every fall after pulling honey. That way it treats them for winter.
    Old Guy in Alabama

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    salisbury, wiltshire, united kingdom
    Posts
    72

    Default Re: Thymol crystal dosage rate for Nosema

    I am in the UK as well but that is an excellent mix, keeps the syrup good and more importantly the bees as well, Nosema has been so forgotten over here because of varroa, but it kills many colonies every winter, Fumidil is available but expensive and Thymol stops the need for it

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Lynchburg, VA
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    2,530

    Default Re: Thymol crystal dosage rate for Nosema

    Beekuk, beebreeder, or anyone, I have a few questions about the 3X Manley approach.

    1. What strength syrup do you use? It appears to be 1:1.

    2. What time of year do you feed the thymol syrup and how much?

    3. Does this thymol syrup also control varroa, as it appears to do with alpha6's experience? See:

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...2&postcount=10

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...89&postcount=4

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...mite+treatment

    4. If it does control varroa, is this the only varroa treatment that you use?
    From each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution. Charles Koch

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Lynchburg, VA
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    2,530

    Default Re: Thymol crystal dosage rate for Nosema

    Quote Originally Posted by Galaxy View Post
    4. If it does control varroa, is this the only varroa treatment that you use?
    This recent research may answer the "does it control varroa" part of question 4.
    Both Day 9 larvae and cocoons had large amounts of both carvacrol and thymol. The highest was over 1 million ppb in the whole Day 9 larvae. The thymol was only detected in the Day 9 larvae at 51,097 ppb. No 2-heptanone or cinnamon oil added to the liquid protein diet was detected in any of the larvae. The very high levels of both carvacrol and thymol in the whole Day 9 larvae would certainly be enough to protect them against Varroa infestation. More recent work in this area has shown that this is true and may explain why bees given certain essential oil treatments protect immature bees from invading Varroa mites.
    http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/pub..._no_115=230111
    From each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution. Charles Koch

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    SOMERSET, ENGLAND
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    337

    Default Re: Thymol crystal dosage rate for Nosema

    Hi Galaxy
    i feed the thymolised syrup only in the autumn/fall to honey producing colonys ,thick syrup,obviously it can be fed to nuc's or any colonys not used for honey production at any time...in spring to nuc's ...thin thymolised syrup. I try to feed at least one gallon or more if needed before the ivy honey flow starts over here....it's due to start in my area in about another week from the looks of the ivy buds.
    Yes i find it to be a good aid to controling varroa...but not the only thing i use...i also use 8g of thymol warmed until dissolved in 12g of veg oil..this is absorbed into a piece of green garden oasis,which is then cut in two and placed directly on top of the brood frames....half of one of these pads for a five frame nuc,two of them for a double brood colony...relaced twice at 12 day intervals....apart from the thymol feeding this is all i do once a year for production colonys...the bee's remain very healthy,with very few varroa.

    PS...bee's that are broodless,like many i bring back from the heather only get one thymol pad treatment for a few days...before they start brooding again when the ivy pollen starts pouring in.

  12. #12
    Join Date
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    Lynchburg, VA
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    2,530

    Default Re: Thymol crystal dosage rate for Nosema

    Thanks, beekuk.
    From each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution. Charles Koch

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Tulsa, OK
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    3,489

    Default Re: Thymol crystal dosage rate for Nosema

    Hey Galaxy,

    Hope all is well with you.

    I don't know about in syrup, but I have used Apiguard (straight Nosema) on hives that have varroa issues, and it knocks down the mites in a big way.

    I was actually wondering the opposite -- does Apiguard or straight thymol do anything to Nosema at the same time it is killing mites?

    On the one hand, the bees are really removing (not eating) the Apiguard, but then again it sure is a big dose of Thymol.

    Anybody have any idea?

    Neil

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    37

    Default Re: Thymol crystal dosage rate for Nosema

    Can I have a recap on this please, there seem to be many variables.

    Winter feed = 2Kg Sugar + 1 litre of water.

    Stock solution of 100ml of pure IPA with ? ? ? g of thymol crystals dissolved into it.

    Add ? ? ? ml of stock solution to ? ? ? litres of winter feed.

    Cheers,
    Gordon.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    4,160

    Default Re: Thymol crystal dosage rate for Nosema

    Earlier this year there was an article in one of the bee magazines. People where claiming that a HBH/1:1 drench was working as well as the fumagin.

    2 tsp HBH, too 1 quart of 1:1 sugar. Pour one cup between the frames of you're hive drenching the bees.
    Dan

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