Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 29
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville, Florida
    Posts
    1,641

    Default DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    I have a hive my best hive to be exact. It is a double deep hive. The top deep is full of honey mostly little brood the bottom deep has 6-7 frames of brood. The hive has produced over 150lbs of honey so far this year. I have moved it three times around my area to make this honey.

    Heres the question, I have noticed them hauling out LIVE full grown bees with DWV. I thought most of the bees with DWV stayed in the hive until they became workers and tried to leave the hive. But, these bees are hauling them out alive. But, if they were being hygenic shouldn't they pull them out of the cells before they are fully grown? These are worker bees also not Drones. The hive still seems very strong. Any ideas on this behavior.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Stoke on trent,UK
    Posts
    42

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    You have a major varroa infestation. Treat asap.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Kingsley, MI. USA
    Posts
    167

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    Not so fast Madasafish....

    It is a myth that only hives that are heavily infested with varroa have to deal with DWV. Although heavy mite infestations will exacerbate many normally occurring viruses such as DWV, any number of bee viruses can occur in otherwise healthy hives. I have experienced DWV in hives that had 24 hour natural mite drops of 1 or 2. If you see several bees with deformed wings crawling around on the ground in front of the hive at any given time of the day, then you probably do have DWV being exacerbated by varroa.

    To answer the question, any bee with DWV is a sick bee and healthy bees will often eject sick bees as soon as they are identified. The sick bees cannot always be identified while the cells are capped. The ability of the bees to detect sick brood depends on what the sickness is.

    Chris Harvey--Teakwood Organics

    www.thewarrestore.com
    Last edited by beez2010; 09-16-2010 at 04:53 AM. Reason: change wording to clarify

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,833

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    I agree that DWV can be present and yet the hive may not be experiencing a severe infestation of mites. I have hives that have had DWV in them for a couple seasons now with low to medium mites counts, and they are just as strong and productive, even more productive, than hives with no DWV. I usually only see the bees with DWV crawling around in the grass in front of their hives. I assume the workers have thrown the unhealthy bees out of the hive, although I have never actually witnessed it. I go treatment free, so the bees have no choice but to handle the problem themselves, and it appears they must be dealing with varroa to some extent so far. John

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Calvert, Md,USA
    Posts
    1,701

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    Same here,,,,DWV with mite count of one I find larvae out in front of the hive that the wings look twisted. New bees too. Two of the hives were local feral swarms. They are my best hives so far. I'm anxious to see how they winter.
    BTW,,,did a few grease patties with wintergreen but gave that up months ago.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville, Florida
    Posts
    1,641

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    Update I did two twenty four natural mite drop counts. The hive is not overly infested with mites. This hive is a relativly new hive, I split the queen and two frames of bees early this past spring to keep them from swarming.

    The mite count for day one was 15 and 20 on day two. I'm not seeing many bees with DWV on the ground the only reason I have even noticed it is because I watch them quite often and notice the workers hauling them out, they usally fall to the ground which gives me a chance to see them before they eventually fly off with them. Most of these are fully developed bees they are newly hatched though because they are very soft and have not hardened up yet. Other than that the hive seems to be doing very well. Thanks for the responses I am still trying to learn as much as I can.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,914

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    A large amount of bees with DWV IS a sign of major varroa numbers.

    Where people get confused is some people have (knowingly or not), varroa tolerant bees. Varroa tolerant bees don't have NO varroa, just they are able to keep them below the fatal threshold. These hives may have bees with DWV, the beekeeper notices this, over time the hive does not die, and assumes any hive can survive this.

    But a non resistant bee, once it's got noticeable numbers of bees with DWV, is doomed, without intervention from the beekeeper.

    The earlier posts that mentioned putting some healthy brood in the sick hive, are correct ONLY IF this is accompanied by a fast acting treatment such as Byvarol, in areas where the mites are not yet immune. The treatment is essential or you are just wasting the healthy brood, but done right this method can save almost any hive.

    To some of the other posters who claim their DWV is a non issue it will be interesting how many hive are alive in spring, and what sort of honey crop they go on to make.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 10-03-2010 at 04:44 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,914

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    Oh Johng a mite count of one by natural drop does not mean your hive is clear. I recently had a friend ring because his hive was doing poorly.
    I quizzed him and became sure it was varroa. But he would not believe me because he read somewhere a mite count of one or two daily was safe.

    So I had to go & have a look, it had all main signs of varroa and I told him so. Without treatment the hive would have lasted 3 to 4 months.

    It was hard work but eventually I convinced him to treat with fluvenate strips. He rang me the next day really pleased i had nagged him into doing it. The first day yeilded 274 mites on his sticky board. he meticulously counted all mites for the duration of treatment and there were more than 2000 total.

    Would not have been long before the hive started to go down the toilet.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,814

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    Quote Originally Posted by johng View Post

    The mite count for day one was 15
    I think that is a high mite count. If you don't do a alcohol wash I would treat ASAP. My experience is that if you're getting that kind of drop an wash will show many more mites. Anything over 10 needs treatment.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Faulkner Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    1,696

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    http://www.capabees.com/main/files/p...athreshold.pdf

    Scroll down to page 4 on this link
    There is will convert the drop count to a %. 18count is equivaltent to 3%. So you are over the 3% mark right now
    Mites double in count in 3 weeks...every brood cycle.
    Severe and visible damage occurs at 4% of mites So, depending on where you are at in the brood cycle you could be nearing 6%+ in varroa infestation which more that shows brood damage.

    Now you have a whole cycle of bees sick. If you were to give it a week or so, your mite counts will go up because the bees are starting to hatch. If you go and uncap a few of the brood, you might see more sick bees. If you notice bees dying while trying to get out of the cell...sick bees. What you will see are heads sticking out, with the tongues out. If you pick them out, you will notice the deformed wings.
    Now these are your wintering bees. These sick bees are what are to carry your hive through the winter.

    Check out this link too
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...2435786960616#

    Good luck

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Mtn. View, Arkansas, USA
    Posts
    1,263

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    Johng, 15 years ago the recommendation here in Arkansas was to treat a colony when the mite drop reached 25, now the recommendation is when the drop is over 50. Check with your state apiary section for the recommendation for your area.

    I had colonies 2 years ago that had large numbers of DWV bees crawling but after requeening the DWV disappeared without treating for varroa. I am now starting to see a few DWV crawlers, but not nearly as large a number as before. Each colony is different, some are more tolerant than others and will not crash until the varroa reach very large numbers. I have had colonies with counts of over 10,000 mites when treated and the fall counted, while others crashed at 5,000.

    One of the first things I notice when varroa starts to damage a colony is that the honey surplus is not as large as was previously gathered. Then the brood starts to be shotgunned by the house bees removing the pupa at the pink colored eye stage. Then the adult bees start to look "shabby", they don't have that clean, healthy look. When they have the shabby, bag lady look you must treat quickly because they are on the edge of collapse.

    If you don't treat with chemicals don't rely on powdered sugar alone as some do, but do sugar dusting along with drone brood removal. The combination of the two is effective. If you use chemicals go with the formac acid products. The are the least contaminating to your comb's wax. I have never used the thymol based products so I can't say how well they work.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Jacksonville, Florida
    Posts
    1,641

    Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    I checked on this hive again. They have pulled every bit of capped brood out of the hive. The queen has young larva and eggs on about 3 frames. There is still quite a few bees in the hive and they are bringing in lots of pollen. I put on an apigaurd treatment about a week and a half ago. I have not found many mites on the sticky board. I'm hoping they pull through.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Kingsley, MI. USA
    Posts
    167

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    Quote Originally Posted by johng View Post
    I checked on this hive again. They have pulled every bit of capped brood out of the hive.
    Or perhaps the capped brood has all emerged normally?

    Quote Originally Posted by johng View Post
    The queen has young larva and eggs on about 3 frames. There is still quite a few bees in the hive and they are bringing in lots of pollen.
    That all sounds normal and healthy.

    Quote Originally Posted by johng View Post
    I put on an apigaurd treatment about a week and a half ago. I have not found many mites on the sticky board.
    Sounds to me like you didn't have any real mite problem to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by johng View Post
    I'm hoping they pull through.
    Despite all of the human interaction and introduction of toxic chemicals, they'll probably be fine. I wish you continued good luck with your bees.

    Chris Harvey--Teakwood Organics

    www.thewarrestore.com

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,914

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    It's not actually normal for them to pull every capped brood out of the hive.

    However, it's probably not varroa related. A more likely explanation would be that there has been a break in the brood cycle caused by the death of the old queen, and the bees have nade a replacement that has just started to lay.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Poplar Bluff, Missouri, USA
    Posts
    2,280

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    johng, you might find it beneficial to requeen with a resistant or hygenic queen next spring. Then you won't have to worry about varroa or dwv and treating. Several of us have gone treatment free for years with such bees.
    Regards,
    Steven
    "If all you have is a hammer, the whole world is a nail." - A.H. Maslow

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,914

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    Agree totally.

    And if the bees have died out over winter, which they likely will, both a queen and a package of bees can be purchased from someone such as BeeWeaver, who produce varroa tolerant bees.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Kingsley, MI. USA
    Posts
    167

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Agree totally.

    And if the bees have died out over winter, which they likely will, both a queen and a package of bees can be purchased from someone such as BeeWeaver, who produce varroa tolerant bees.
    Oldtimer,

    Could you please explain why you believe that a northern Florida winter is likely to kill this gentleman's apparently mostly healthy, non-varroa infested bee colony?

    Thanks in advance!

    Chris Harvey--Teakwood Organics

    www.thewarrestore.com

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,914

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    Non-varroa infested bee colony? Perhaps you missed something, see below.


    Quote Originally Posted by johng View Post
    Heres the question, I have noticed them hauling out LIVE full grown bees with DWV. I thought most of the bees with DWV stayed in the hive until they became workers and tried to leave the hive. But, these bees are hauling them out alive.



    Quote Originally Posted by johng View Post
    Update I did two twenty four natural mite drop counts.

    The mite count for day one was 15 and 20 on day two. .

    Bottom line Beez, it's just plain wrong to tell John he has no varroa.

    Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by Ravenseye; 10-15-2010 at 05:29 AM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Kingsley, MI. USA
    Posts
    167

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    Old Timer,

    Perhaps you have missed something.

    Quote Originally Posted by johng View Post
    I checked on this hive again. The queen has young larva and eggs on about 3 frames. There is still quite a few bees in the hive and they are bringing in lots of pollen. I put on an apigaurd treatment about a week and a half ago. I have not found many mites on the sticky board.
    There is no such thing as a hive with NO varroa (at least not on this continent) and I have never said to anyone at any time that I think or that they should think that their hive(s) is free of varroa. Johng has already done a varroa treatment and has not found much.


    Chris Harvey--Teakwood Organics

    www.thewarrestore.com
    Last edited by Ravenseye; 10-15-2010 at 05:27 AM. Reason: Unnecessary comments

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,914

    Default Re: DWV and Hygenic Behavior?

    John a word about apiguard, it is one of those organic treatments that to work right, has to be done when the temperature is correct, plus other factors. It should be regarded as less than 100% reliable, I see a lot of people use it with almost no effect at all, if conditions are wrong.

    The fact that you were getting a 15 or 20 daily natural mite drop, then used the apiguard, and said the mite drop is not much, tells me the apiguard treatment, in this case, is not working.

    To be a little more scientific, it is believed mites live something around 100 days. So we could expect a daily mite death rate of 1% of the mite population, That would mean a daily natural drop of 15 mites would equal a total mite population of 1,500. ( That's the theory ). But in real life, daily natural mite drop counts can be unreliable because for one reason or another, not all the dead mites end up on the sticky board. the real population is probably worse.
    Last edited by Ravenseye; 10-15-2010 at 03:44 PM.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads