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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Death of Bees: GMO Crops and the Decline of Colonies in North America

    This article has had a tremendous impact on a critical issue and encourages people to keep posting their ideas on what they think CCD is and what is causing it.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Death of Bees: GMO Crops and the Decline of Colonies in North America

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisw View Post
    This article has had a tremendous impact on a critical issue....
    I haven't seen that impact but perhaps I just don't read the same journals as you.

    I'm glad people are discussing it though.

    Wayne

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Death of Bees: GMO Crops and the Decline of Colonies in North America

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisw View Post
    This article has had a tremendous impact on a critical issue and encourages people to keep posting their ideas on what they think CCD is and what is causing it.
    Unfortunately, it also encourages people to form their opinions based on panic reactions and alarmist fear-mongering. The article you posted may have put down the "cell phone" argument, which is good to see, but it offers an alternative formed in the same fallacious manner.

    Genetic manipulation has been part-and-parcel of agriculture since agriculture was invented. People have always studded their best bulls and saved the seeds from their best crops in the hopes of creating superior descendants. GMO is nothing but the logical progression of this behavior into our time, and something's being done in a day in a laboratory rather than over a three-year period via natural processes doesn't automatically make it "evil".

    Certainly, just as with natural breeding and hybridization, problems can ensue. But that's a QC or a research problem, not a "zomg, GMO!" problem. Africanized bees weren't created in a test tube...

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Death of Bees: GMO Crops and the Decline of Colonies in North America

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisw View Post
    "It is not about the correct punctuation of a mans words or the proper organizing of a sentence that determines the man, but what determines a man is the content of his character."

    - Chris W 8/27/10
    Are you sure Martin Luther King didnt say that first

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Death of Bees: GMO Crops and the Decline of Colonies in North America

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisw View Post
    "It is not about the correct punctuation of a mans words or the proper organizing of a sentence that determines the man, but what determines a man is the content of his character."

    - Chris W 8/27/10
    I know I've seen this quote before, and it's alot older than you. John

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Death of Bees: GMO Crops and the Decline of Colonies in North America

    Quote Originally Posted by melliferal View Post
    Unfortunately, it also encourages people to form their opinions based on panic reactions and alarmist fear-mongering. The article you posted may have put down the "cell phone" argument, which is good to see, but it offers an alternative formed in the same fallacious manner.

    Genetic manipulation has been part-and-parcel of agriculture since agriculture was invented. People have always studded their best bulls and saved the seeds from their best crops in the hopes of creating superior descendants. GMO is nothing but the logical progression of this behavior into our time, and something's being done in a day in a laboratory rather than over a three-year period via natural processes doesn't automatically make it "evil".

    Certainly, just as with natural breeding and hybridization, problems can ensue. But that's a QC or a research problem, not a "zomg, GMO!" problem. Africanized bees weren't created in a test tube...
    Your GMO "natural process" sounds like a Sunday afternoon walk in the park.
    Our food chain is compromised NOW, and the long term effects to our food chain are UNKNOWN.
    Why the seed vault up north?
    (back-up in case of possible screw-up messing with mother nature??)

    It may not be "evil" as you say, but frog genes in a plant goes against nature don't you think?

    BM
    “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JOHN F. KENNEDY -

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Death of Bees: GMO Crops and the Decline of Colonies in North America

    Quote Originally Posted by brushmouth View Post
    Our food chain is compromised NOW, and the long term effects to our food chain are UNKNOWN.
    That's right - unknown. We could be headed for a disaster of apocalyptic proportions. Or, the long-term effects could be so negligible that the environment adapts easily and unnoticed. This is true of any kind of social, technological, or ecological change. Yet so many people seem to want to act as if the doomsday scenario (or whatever is analogous) should be considered the most likely - or that we should act as if it's most likely. Why? I'm interested in what your metric is. GMO is a relatively new thing, so it's not as if we can look back at the long-term effects of previous GMO ventures. Is the mere possibility of a bad result what scares you?

    The long-term effects of the transition of human society to a computer-centric paradigm are UNKNOWN...but there you are on your computer, posting to a forum on the internet, yeah?

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Death of Bees: GMO Crops and the Decline of Colonies in North America

    Quote Originally Posted by brushmouth View Post
    Our food chain is compromised NOW, and the long term effects to our food chain are UNKNOWN.
    Known or unknown, the original article fails to convince many researchers (or perhaps no researchers) that the primary cause of CCD is GMO crops.

    As I said earlier, the author of the original article succeded only in accomplishing what he was whining about, that is distracting the research into the actual causes by throwing out a favorite "smoking gun" and limiting the discussion to only that one possibility.

    Wayne

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Death of Bees: GMO Crops and the Decline of Colonies in North America

    Quote Originally Posted by brushmouth View Post
    It may not be "evil" as you say, but frog genes in a plant goes against nature don't you think?
    Actually, plants, animals and microbes already share some genes. Critical biological pathways and processes are the same, or extremely similar. Advances in technology allow for things that took much longer in the past. It use to be "we" did lots of things to create mutations in the hope that some would be to our liking and reproduceable. Now we can take genes we find beneficial and move them between organisms.

    What if a gene were identified in another species that provided protection to the AIDS virus? Or, some other human healthcare problem?

    I think a lot of the GMO fear mongering is kind of like chicken little and the sky is falling. Everyone does not have to embrace the technology. The technology is just a tool.

    Tom

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Death of Bees: GMO Crops and the Decline of Colonies in North America

    I bet that's precisely the reason the Europeans love GMO food so much.

    BM
    “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JOHN F. KENNEDY -

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Death of Bees: GMO Crops and the Decline of Colonies in North America

    As a genetic engineer myself, I think the technology most likely to kill us will be deliberately made to do so. Yes - it is conceivable that transgenic plants and animals may lead to some harmful unintended consequences but the harsh reality is that bioweapons are being produced around the globe and they are much easier to produce than a nuke and a lot more easy to deliver. Adding interleukin genes to small pox and changing some surface proteins to evade an immune response are worth losing sleep over.
    Reduction of the gene pool and centralized control of food scare me a lot more than eating GMO foods.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Death of Bees: GMO Crops and the Decline of Colonies in North America

    Quote Originally Posted by TWall View Post
    What if a gene were identified in another species that provided protection to the AIDS virus? Or, some other human healthcare problem?
    what if they did? would you sign up to have these genes implanted in your soon to be born baby in a way that they are heritable to their offspring? really? would you really?

    deknow

  13. #33

    Default Re: Death of Bees: GMO Crops and the Decline of Colonies in North America

    I swear that this is true. Some time ago I was taking classes at a local university. During the same semester I took a general entomology class and a pesticide management class. One morning, during the general ento class the prof played a film from the late 1940s. It was a researcher who stated that ‘this will change agriculture as we know it today’. He was referring to DDT. In my afternoon pesticide management class, the visiting professor was working with gm cotton. And he said….well you know…word for word….on the same day! I felt the hair on the back of my neck stand up.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Death of Bees: GMO Crops and the Decline of Colonies in North America

    Science will kill us ALL!

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