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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
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    6,029

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    Nice work Joseph!
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,029

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    Unfortunately Michael that link would not work for me, I would like to have read it.

    I'm wondering how they structured their work, because in my experience, the bigger the better, and I read elsewhere a study showing larger queens DO have more oviarolies.
    As the size of a queen can vary considerably with both seasonal considerations, and local hive situation, but she will always have the same number of oviarolies, we could say, depending on how they did the experiment, that queen size does not affect it.

    But when I see new virgins, the bigger the thorax, I know the bigger queen she will end up, and this does provide a guide to future performance. So I've always assumed more oviarolies, consistent with the study I read. Got to admit that I haven't chopped up any queens and counted myself, way beyond my expertise.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,384

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    >Unfortunately Michael that link would not work for me, I would like to have read it.

    It works for me... not sure why it won't for you.

    Here is the abstract:
    "Histological Estimates of Ovariole Number in Honey Bee Queens, Apis mellifera, Reveal Lack of Correlation with other Queen Quality Measures

    "Jeffrey T. Jackson,1 David R. Tarpy, and Susan E. Fahrbach

    "Abstract

    "Published estimates of the number of ovarioles found in the ovaries of honey bee, Apis mellifera L. (Hymenoptera: Apidae) queens range from 100 to 180 per ovary. Within the context of a large-scale study designed to assay the overall quality of queens obtained from various commercial sources, a simple histology-based method for accurate determination of ovariole number was developed and then applied to a sample of 75 queens. Although all 10 commercial sources evaluated provided queens with ovariole numbers within the expected range, ovariole number was found to vary significantly across sources. Overall, and within most of the individual samples, there was no correlation of ovariole number with other morphological attributes such as thoracic width, wing length, or wet weight. Queens from two of the sources, however, displayed a significant negative relationship between wet weight and ovariole number. This study provides baseline data on ovariole number in commercial honey bee queens in the United States at a time when honey bee populations are declining; the method described can be used in studies relating ovariole number in queens to egg production and behavior."
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,407

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    I use 5-frame nuc boxes for cell builders, primarily because it is easier to cram lots of nurse bees closely together, and I use deep boxes with three frames of sealed/emerging brood and two medium frames with two 15-cell, cell bars, so I can get sixty nice cells from the least amount of nurse bees. I've tried using cloak boards, etc. But just can't justify the extra effort and complexity, when 5-frame deep nuc boxes filled with nurse bees works so well.

    I find the most important issue with growing queen cells is crowding as many nurse bees as possible into the smallest space suitable - then providing them everything they need to raise the cells. Nurse bees will not ignore open brood, either above, below, or adjacent to cells.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    6,029

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    OK well if that's what they found Michael, can't argue. However those ratty little ones I pinch? I think I'll go with my gut and keep pinching them. I have seen how they perform. Not going to kid my customers there's a reverse correlation I might go out of business. I do know how to produce ratty little queens though, it's easy. . Just do the reverse of Joseph Clemens. But I think I'll stick with something closer to the Clemens method.
    Haven't personally counted any ovarioles though, perhaps there are other factors involved.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

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