Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 45
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Green Lane, PA
    Posts
    839

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    I was able to get some very large cells this year also. I have monitored them throughout the season and have found they are also the same size as queens from other cells.

    I believe the larva can only eat so much royal jelly, and the rest is eaten by the worker bees once the queen emerges. Although when virgins hatch in the incubator I have observed them going back into the cells and eating the excess royal jelly.

    The larger cells in my opinion are a result of the extra royal jelly and not to accomodate a larger queen.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,614

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuleluder View Post
    The larger cells in my opinion are a result of the extra royal jelly and not to accomodate a larger queen.
    I agree, but with large cells and left over jelly, you know the virgin had all she could eat.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Winslow,arkansas,USA
    Posts
    44

    Big Grin Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    what do you do with all the queen cells? do they get
    split up to hatch in individual boxes? I did a split this
    year and didn't know what to do with all the queen cells.
    I think there were about 10. could I have put them in
    small boxes with a few drones, and had mated queens
    to use or sale???

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    457

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    Mrmizilplix - Working on the theory that you aren't kidding - No, but you could have put them in mini nucs with a cup or two of bees, let them emerge and mate. Then you'd have a bunch of mated queens.

    Pugs

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Winslow,arkansas,USA
    Posts
    44

    Big Grin Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    Then how do you handle let's say 30-50 queen cells?
    what's the process?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Ozark, Ar
    Posts
    76

    Thumbs Up Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    Then how do you handle let's say 30-50 queen cells?


    Hey Mrmizilplix,
    Your Request is large in scope. Buy the book : Contemporary Queen Rearing
    By Harry H. Laidlaw , Jr Will Answer Alot ! Many feel it is the best Queen rearing book, in publication .
    David

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,408

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    Anyway, queens seem to have a maximum size limit. My normal size queen cells usually have a reserve of royal jelly, such that there is royal jelly remaining in the bottom of the queen cells even after the queens have emerged. The larger cells just seem to have an even larger reserve of royal jelly remaining after adult queen emergence. Either way I believe the queens produced to be virtually identical.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,408

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    The batch of cells that was growing when I started this thread I had intended to take a photograph of to illustrate the difference. But, I neglected to prime the cell-builder with a frame of young larva, and the cells turned out, normal sized.

    Yesterday, Friday, I grafted another set, but had primed them with a frame of hatching eggs and young larva. As I removed the frame of young larva I noticed that they had been very well fed with lots of royal jelly. You'd think that this might deplete the nurse bee's supply, instead of "priming the pump", so to speak. In a few more days I will know if it had the desired effect. If they do so turn out, I will definitely photograph them and add the image to this thread. There is also a modest flow happening, due to a little rain we've had in our vicinity in these past two weeks.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,157

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    Joseph - After trying a few different methods this year I think a cell builder like yours is what I want to do next year, but I have a couple of questions:

    How often do you need to add frames of emerging brood to keep it strong?

    Do you get a lot of burr comb on the bottoms of the medium frames being in a deep box? If so, have you ever tried a slatted rack to give the bees cluster space while discouraging burr comb? I hate to waste comb.

    Thanks

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,408

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    Whenever I manipulate the hive to check on the cells, about every second day, I check any recent frames of emerging brood for developing rouge queen cells, and remove them. As I am doing this I realize that when I don't find any queen cells on newly added frames that the older frames are ready to be switched with fresh ones. The two outermost frames are only partially drawn foundationless frames, the bees continue building them, filling them with nectar and pollen. When these outer combs are completed I replace them with fresh ones - that seems to take care of too much extra wax on the queen cells and the bees desire to extend the medium combs beneath the bottom bars. This way my queen cell builder nucs serve a double duty.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,157

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    That makes sense - they would rather draw comb in the nest than under it as long as they have room.

    So in theory you could start a new batch of cells as often as every 2-4 (?) days by moving the started ones to a finisher or leave them in the same hive for 10 days before changing them out. Right?

    It sounds like a simple, effective, scalable system. What if any drawbacks have you found with it? Other than the need to swap brood and check for rogue cells ever 2-3 days - which applies to most systems anyway.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,408

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    Yes, I'm sure it could be used like a "swarm box" is used in some systems, just to get the grafts accepted and the cells started. I leave them in there until they are sealed, and sometimes a few days more.

    The only drawback I found are likely the same with just about any system; overlooking a rouge queen cell, having a virgin queen drift to this nuc and then destroy cells. I corrected these problems (more or less), by being exceptionally diligent to search out and destroy rouge cells and I put a nuc "disc" entrance on and rotated it into the queen excluder position - it has helped greatly. The other drawback is to lose track of a batch of cells, leaving them in until one of the virgins emerges and destroys some or all of the growing cells. I once had a situation where I would graft a bar, have the grafts accepted, the cells begin to grow, then the growing larva would suddenly be missing, like the cells were aborted -- I discovered a virgin was patrolling the nuc and evicting queen larva as she found them.

    Later this Autumn, I plan to move this cell builder nuc into a nuc of luan walls with 1-1/4" thick outer walls of styrofoam, for the cooler months. I've reconsidered the luan/styrofoam plan -- instead I will see how fastening the styrofoam outside one of the 15/32" plywood nucs works instead.
    Last edited by Joseph Clemens; 09-06-2010 at 03:19 PM.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,408

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    I finally produced another batch of queen cells under optimal conditions (plus), I estimate they are about 3/16" longer than usual nice queen cells -->

    Nine grafts produced these seven cells. The other two I placed before they were sealed.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cookeville, TN, USA
    Posts
    4,157

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    What is your final success percentage - laying queens. 7 out of nine grafts to cells X out of 7 laying queens.

    On average.

    My last try produced 16 cells from 30 grafts and resulted in 8 laying queens. Not great, but it gives me an idea of how many grafts I need to do to end up with a given number of queens. So I'm wondering how it is with more experience and skill.

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    370

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    Joseph,

    About what is the average length of your large cells? Looks like maybe an inch and a half? I was thinking the cup was just very shallowly concave--or is it nearly as deep on the inside as on the outside?

    Partially I'm curious, but I'm also wondering how many queen-cell bars I can fit on a medium frame if I tinker with it!

    Thanks!

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,408

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    David,
    I actually had 100% grafts to finished cells, this time. I just moved two into their nucs, so they could be finished by the nucs. I usually get better than 50% grafts to ripe cells, sometimes more, sometimes less. The graft attempt immediately preceding this one, was destroyed, all but one, by another rouge virgin.

    Some virgins have emerged with deformed wings ->
    Some disappear from undetermined causes ->

    I haven't kept close enough track to definitively answer your questions. But a large percentage of virgins achieve mated/laying status. I'd be happier if all those that did were outstanding queens. Right now I have three, otherwise excellent queens, who each have a damaged leg, I keep them as laying machines, though I wouldn't sell them or use them in a full-size colony. Eventually I will need to remove them and replace them with other queen cells, and hopefully those next queens will be better.

    Tara,
    Those JZsBZs plastic queen cell cups are, 13/32" deep with the bottoms rounded concave, they are also 9/32" inner diameter. Tomorrow I will measure the three remaining extra-large cells to see what their lengths are.
    ----------------------------

    Update: I measured the three remaining cells from that batch of cells. I didn't need to average them, they were all 20mm of wax extending beyond the plastic cell cups.
    Last edited by Joseph Clemens; 09-22-2010 at 12:17 PM. Reason: Update on cell sizes
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Livingston County, NY
    Posts
    556

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    Joseph,

    Post #28 says you neglected to "prime" cell builder. could you explain this please.
    Rmns 1:16/Prv.3:5,6/ Beegan BK May 09/ Zone 5b
    I have NOT failed. I have only found many many ways that do not work!

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,408

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    I call it "priming" when, a day or two before I graft, I give the queen cell builder one or more frames of hatching eggs/less than 3 day old larva and the attending nurse bees. Then I graft and replace these priming frames with the bars/frames of grafts, shaking the nurse bees so they remain with the cell builder. Usually this is a fairly certain way of getting the largest finished cells with the most extra royal jelly.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    46,774

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    Hard to say if you'll get bigger queens, but in my experience cell size is not related to queen size. Here is a research paper that queen size is not related to ovarioles:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3398436/
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Livingston County, NY
    Posts
    556

    Default Re: Larger queen cells - do they produce larger queens?

    Joseph,

    I read most everything you post & I even remember some. I can't recall why you said you use 5 frame cell builders.

    I am going to try the cloak board method on some of my hives if I get the time this spring. I have a ten frame top that has been modified to set a 5 frame nuc box over the center. The excluder is part of the top & has a slide in division (cloak) board. A ten frame double brood box on bottom & a 5 frame nuc over the top.
    Seems to me that getting a large volumn of nurse bees into the cell builder would be accomplished w/the dbl 10 frame below. Is low resources the issue w/using a 5 frame?
    Having open brood below be problematic w/nurse bees ignoring open brood in cell builder?
    Rmns 1:16/Prv.3:5,6/ Beegan BK May 09/ Zone 5b
    I have NOT failed. I have only found many many ways that do not work!

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads