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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Webster, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    2

    Default What do I do with the frames?

    I went last weekend to harvest honey from 2 of my hives and to my surprise one hive had moths fly out as I opened the lid the worms and moths where everywhere in the brood, medium and small ruined the whole hive.

    I checked the hive for a queen she was gone. so I took the hive apart and took the frames stuck them in a trash bag and froze them to kill the worms. the rest of the bees went to the hive next to theirs and I didn't see them fighting with the hive they were going into, so was this the right thing to do and what do I do with all these frames destroyed and froze?

    My second problem was I went to harvest from the second hive and found brood in all the honey. I had a queen excluder and a medium it looked like most of the brood is spotted and drone cells but just enough to screw up the honey could the queen from the moth ridden hive escape to the hive next to hers and climb in the top opening and lay eggs??? I looked for a queen above the excluder didnt see one.

    I'm confused and dont have a lot of experience could some one help?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    B.C / A.L B / canada
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: What do I do with the frames?

    About the wax, wax moths consume pollen in the hives to increase their numbers and usually underneath of the cells are holes. If you use those frames again for brood production, when the larva goes to pupa stage, the wax moth eggs are just starting to develop because there is lower oxygen in the cells. The bees then open the pupa in a straight line in the comb, and when bees throw out the pupa, the comb will be okay for using it again. To prevent wax moth problems, they use to have aminophosphate on the bottom box and 1 gram in a plastic bag for 10 supers, as well as closing all entrances. In less than 72 hours, all the wax moths and their eggs will be dead. Because this chemical can be so dangerous for humans and animals, lots of countries have made it illegal to use this product. Therefore, instead of using this product, biological prevention is necessary. Take all the pollen frames and give them to the strong hives and feed them liquid sugar to cap the honey on these frames - or - give the pollen frames to the weak hives to consume. And yes, you can also move the frames that contain wax moths to the freezer because they won't grow in a cold climate.
    As for your 2nd question, if you have spotted drone on worker cells, and the worker brood is spotted, it shows that the queen has a shortage of semen in 90% of cases. In the remaining 10%, when a colony gets to protein deficiency, there is a shortage of pollen and the bees' hyphopharengeal glands are not able to produce enough jelly for the larva. These use their own body proteins instead, and so their mandibular glands will not produce any royal jelly. Because of that, the queen gets a shortage of nutrition, and the semen in her spermatica will be damaged and lots of eggs cannot get fertilized.
    I don't believe that the queen from the moth hive went to your 2nd hive. There is about a 0% chance of that happening because in a heathy hive, the bees will not accept that. There is a process of having 2 queens in one hive.
    I hope that answered most of your question. If you want any more information on disease, etc., you can visit my website: www.caspianapiaries.com. Please feel free to contact me any time.
    Hossein

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,349

    Default Re: What do I do with the frames?

    To control wax moth larva I prefer Bacillus thuringiensis variety aizawai; produced by Vita Europe, and sold by Beeworks as B 401, and formerly Certan. A similar product, XenTari, is also available for use in the U.S.A. to control pesky moth/butterfly larva that affect some garden/farm crops.

    You have some very interesting questions. I believe you did well disassembling the wax moth affected colony. Your second colony, however, may need more in-depth examination to determine its precise condition and appropriate remedies.
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    B.C / A.L B / canada
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: What do I do with the frames?

    Just an addition for wax moth disease control, tracheal grama is the best because it uses wax moths to increase itself (tracheal grama) for rice and apple disease control. Therefore, it's natural.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Tucson, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    5,349

    Default Re: What do I do with the frames?

    I think you mean Trichogramma wasps. I wouldn't think they would be as effective as the biological control, Bt aizawai, since the wax moth larva need to reach a fairly large size before the wasps use them as food for their own larva (giving the wax moth larva time to do damage in the hive).
    48 years - 50 hives - TF
    Joseph Clemens -- Website Under Constructioni

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Webster, Kansas, USA
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: What do I do with the frames?

    I dont want to use chemicals, to control this problem . should I scrape the foundations clean and start over after I froze the worms or will the eggs be hidden and start the life cycle over? heating the frames and foundation will this kill the eggs, I guess I must mention Im using plastic frame and foundations that are molded together for the hole hive. It seems I didnt have problems until I started using them.
    And for the other hive with brood in the honey I was told maybe a drone layed eggs in the honey, why would they do this? is the queen having problems or is this what they do?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Middlesex County, Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: What do I do with the frames?

    Most folks don't consider BT to be a "chemical" as it is actually some kind of bacteria that attacks wax moth larvae but not honeybees. It is about as natural a solution as you can find. Freezing the frames will kill the eggs too - but as soon as you take them out to store - the wax moths will return to lay new eggs. If you really want to use no chemicals - you can keep the frames in a freezer until you are ready to put them into a strong hive that will suppress the wax moth population.

    I am guessing that what someone told you about the drone brood was that you may have a "laying worker" or a failing queen called a "drone layer" not a drone bee that is laying eggs. Drone bees cannot lay eggs under any circumstances.

    Solutions to each of those problems can be searched in other threads in the forums. good luck

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