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Thread: Nicot system

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
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    Cowpens South Carolina
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    54

    Default Nicot system

    Anyone have any luck with this type of Queen rearing system? I would really like to know your experience, and results with it, both good, and bad.

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Heavener Oklahoma
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    928

    Default Re: Nicot system

    http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g3...e/100_0721.jpg

    When i first got mine a few years back Got 11 out of 16 first try beautifully built

    And i learned some things that worked better for me

    The second batch was about late Aug put the queen in the grid got about 20 larva they built about 80% then about 3/4 the way after they were sealed the cell builder tore 1/2 of the 80% down out of the remaining 7 or 8 sealed cells went to get them to put in the nuc's they had tore most all down

    The third try the queen had laid about 70 Cups i thought wow this will work great I set up another cell starter finisher in a 5 frame nuc put in about 30 cell cups with very tiny larva 12 hr or under. The next day 24 hrs later NOTHING Zipo not even 1. So I rechecked cell builder for an queen no queen so redid it.

    The 4th Try Queen had laid in several cups 40-50 went to collect the cups with tiny larva I had done ck earlier and found plenty of eggs but on the day of transferring the cups nothing, seen some shriveled up eggs and a few freshly laid eggs.

    Next Spring started trying it again Some of the thing that happen last late summer. They would start 80-90% then half way they would tare about 1/2 down. It was 2-3 days from hatch I rechecked the they had tore down a few more so I took one off the bar and broke it open to my surprise the larva was a huge big fat larvae it fill the cell fuller than any other queen cell i Had ever seen it Was a Drone Larva.

    One day I was setting holding and studying the Nicot grid box trying to figure out some way to get it to work. Then i thought cell size the cell looked close to a worker cell but it is a a bit bigger than worker and smaller than a drone as i was trying to figure it out had a coke i was drink through a straw i had a thought the straw fit down into the cells on the grid perfect.

    So I cut me some Sleeves to fit into the cells most were just below the rime of the hole in the cell grid. That ended the problem of the queen laying drone eggs in the cells.

    When I first started using the grid in the late summer the queen had started laying Drone brood in the frames for the fall.and when i used it the early spring was the same the queen was geared up laying drone eggs in the comb sense the cells were a little bigger than worker cell this is what she laid was drone eggs it will not happen every time if you were to use again without putting in the straw sleeve but for me i wanted it to work every time without worrying was i going to have GOOD queens in the cells

    Also got where I just left the breeder in the grid it was kind hard on her catching her by the wings every time i placed her in the grid she got where she would really cling to the comb as i was catching her i was afraid i was going to hurt her.

    I would collect cups with barely see able larva. then would work the eggs to the outer edges and place the empty new cups in the center would get from 15- 30 some times 50 larva. I might transfer 1day skip a day or two would collect from the outer cups. if larva got big beyond the proper age for good grafts i would remove these cups and put in new ones. Doing it this way you will have to keep closer check on the cell cups for tiny grafing age UNDER 24 Hours larva. 12 Hr or just hatch would be the best

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    hancock county, ky
    Posts
    63

    Default Re: Nicot system

    the nicot system works. i used it for my first batch of queens. getting ready to make a second. i will be using the nicot and grafting.
    the only problem i see with the nicot is the beginning steps, poishing cells, finding queen, caging queen, checking for eggs, removing queen,moving cups.
    it seems it would be easier to me, and i may be wrong being my first graft didn't take, to find a frame of eggs and brood from donor hive, graft,put in cell builder. grafting seems the easier most efficient way, once you learn to graft. maybe some more experience can chime in, i've just started to learn a queen rearing system this year. good luck

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Sacramento,California,USA
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    3,604

    Default Re: Nicot system

    I've used the Nicot system several times with good success. If not in a good flow, then feeder needs be used on the queen mother hive, otherwise they will abandon eggs and larva, or eat them, in the cell cage. The cell starter hive must be strong and fed and desperately hopeless, just like in any queen rearing system.

    I've found this system to be easy and successful the few times I've used it, after I figured out how to make up a strong cell starter, and when I do it during a flow, it works well. If not in a flow, syrup and pollen must be fed to stimulate them into raising cells, which is a good idea to do even when in a good flow.
    “When one tugs at a single thing in nature, he finds it attached to the rest of the world.” – John Muir

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Heavener Oklahoma
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    928

    Default Re: Nicot system

    I didn't let them polish the cells just blow them out (mouth or Air hose)and keep the top rolled down on your bag of cups so dust will not get in them

    If you leave your breeder Queen in the nicot once they get going there usually some larva is in some of the cups ( before eggs will hatch the nurse bees have to place some royal jelly down around the egg just before they are to hatch the queen is also fed royal jelly this keeps her ovaries producing eggs) this will keep nurse bees there, also place a frame of eggs and young larva from a Donner facing the nicot on the excluder side.

    If you are only going us it 1 or 2 times with in 4 or 5 days when finished let queen out

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
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    1,880

    Default Re: Nicot system

    Quote Originally Posted by RayMarler View Post
    If not in a good flow, then feeder needs be used on the queen mother hive, otherwise they will abandon eggs and larva, or eat them, in the cell cage. The cell starter hive must be strong and fed and desperately hopeless, just like in any queen rearing system.
    it works every time if you do it correctly. the key to raising queens is the starter not how you get the laval there. make the starter correctly any you will get queen cells. i also use the jenter and it works fine too. try using a cloak board on a really strong hive and you will get fine queen cells.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    St. Johns, Florida
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Nicot system

    I am having a issue with my new Nicot. I got my new Nicot mounted on a Medium Frame and stuck it into my bottom brood chamber of the breeder hive for 24hrs to be cleaned. I then return to the breeder hive to cage the queen, and leave her in there for another 24hrs to lay. The next day i take a look and she has laid all the cell cups and i then release her. I come back 3 days to find that the eggs have not been feed and not at the larva state.?? " this would be the 4'th day"

    Should i leave my Queen caged longer to attract the nursers to start feeding the eggs? I have a small flow kicking not really understanding what is going on. I have seen the Nicot System fail where the workers will clean them out. But not leave them and not feed them. Do i just wait it out?? When do I say ok time to try again and reload cell cups to be prep for another go at it.

    If anyone would have any advice i would appreciate it!

    Thanks,
    -Drew-

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    1,880

    Default Re: Nicot system

    figuring out when to pull the plugs(# of hours) is interesting the first few times, depends on when the queen started laying, if you came back the next day, i'm sure they eggs would have hatched.
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    St. Johns, Florida
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Nicot system

    Nicot works well. I did have an issue the other day where it looked like the nursers weren't going to feed the eggs. But i re-entered and all was well. Got about 80 that were feed well. Seems that once the Nicot is broke in "smell of the hive" it'll crank them out

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Issaquah,WA,USA
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    2,344

    Default Re: Nicot system

    We did our first round with the Nicot system and got nothing. We left her in 2 days and we found 15 or so cups with eggs. We found 5 in one cup so I moved 4 of them to other cups and moved them to individual. We checked to day and they had emptied out the cups and they were all clean. not a cell built out of 20 we had in the frame. Not sure if we are going to try again this year. Dont know what happened.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    St. Johns, Florida
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    53

    Default Re: Nicot system

    Did you load all the cell cups? If not that is why.

  12. #12
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    Apr 2009
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    Issaquah,WA,USA
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    Default Re: Nicot system

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew Martin View Post
    Did you load all the cell cups? If not that is why.
    So we filled all of the cups in the nicot box that we put the queen in. Then we moved only the ones with eggs into the frame. I have frame with 2 rows of 16. We only did 20 of the 32 since we did not have enough cups with eggs. Was that wrong.?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Gilmer,TX USA
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    1,830

    Default Re: Nicot system

    I have no experience with the Nicot system, but I have Dadant's kit. I have a friend that is in Germany with Carl Jenter right now, this friend swears by the Jenter kit, any others have any luck with it?

    Kingfisher

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Heavener Oklahoma
    Posts
    928

    Default Re: Nicot system

    It wont work with eggs on your cell bar you have to let them hatch in the nicot that is why i leave the queen in the nicot box it will keep some nurse bees there to attend to the queen and then some of the nurse bees will tend to the eggs so they wont dry our. Also i cut a sleeve from a straw to make the cell a little bit smaller id you were to check the cell in the nicot are bigger than the average worker cell and smaller than a drone cell

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    St. Johns, Florida
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    53

    Default Re: Nicot system

    The cell cups need to be left in the Nicot if eggs are present to be feed to hatch into larva "3days". If you take the cell cups which are just eggs NOT feed with jelly, and a fix them to your cell bar and in a cell builder they will be rejected. The eggs have to be feed and hatched. 48/66 Hrs. this process can take for a hatched egg.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    45,925

    Default Re: Nicot system

    There is no point transferring eggs. They will just remove them. It takes four days from when the queen is confined to when you have larvae. This is what you want to transfer. that's four elapsed days. In other words, the day you confine the queen is 0 elapsed days. The next day when you release her is 1 elapsed day. Three days after that is 4 elapsed days. To put it another way, if you confine the queen on Sunday, you will have larvae on Thursday.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  17. #17
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    Apr 2009
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    Issaquah,WA,USA
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    Default Re: Nicot system

    OH Ok. I guess I did not follow the instructions enough. Might be too late to try again this year. I think the jener and nicot systems are basically the same. Mine was the Mannlake kit.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    St. Johns, Florida
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    53

    Default Re: Nicot system

    Quote Originally Posted by EastSideBuzz View Post
    OH Ok. I guess I did not follow the instructions enough. Might be too late to try again this year. I think the jener and nicot systems are basically the same. Mine was the Mannlake kit.
    Mann Lake kit = Nicot

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Auburn, Washington, USA
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    310

    Default Re: Nicot system

    Does one really need to fill in all of the cups into the cage? Seems an awful waste to place 100 cups only to use 10. Looking for any information about minimum number of cups, placement pattern and any other hints. I considered taping shut unused holes with clear tape and only leaving a central square, maybe 5 by 4 for a total of 20 cells for queen to target. Is that workable or is she likely to lay multiple eggs in each cell.

    Maybe I can allow the queen to lay in all of the cells, but then clean the extra ones before hatching with water so that they can be used again?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    45,925

    Default Re: Nicot system

    You want the queen to get her butt taped to the bottom of the cell? If you leave them out and don't plug them they will crawl into the box behind the plugs where they don't belong. Also, if you had less for her to lay in she will lay more doubles and those are more problematic. You can reuse the plugs. Just leave it out of the hive for a couple of days and then put it back and they will clean out the eggs for you.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

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