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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    2,930

    Default Re: My Cell Building Methods

    Quote Originally Posted by JSL View Post
    always have more cells than nucs ready to go.
    So far no issue with that happening. Keeping up with equipment is my number one challenge. I got 93 new boxes this past winter for 23 hives. and already do not have nearly enough deeps. I may not have enough mediums at the rate they are going through them. Nucs so far I am good on but don't know how long that will last.

    The cell builder was reunited and 10 more frames of brood added last Monday. Round two is under way.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,322

    Default Re: My Cell Building Methods

    Quote Originally Posted by JSL View Post
    Cells are relatively easy to produce, so always have more cells than nucs ready to go.
    Isn't that the truth. Every so often something really stupid happens…like a virgin from somewhere else in the apiary enters your cell builder.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Lipik, Croatia
    Posts
    61

    Default Re: My Cell Building Methods

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    Isn't that the truth. Every so often something really stupid happens…like a virgin from somewhere else in the apiary enters your cell builder.
    Last year one beek bought a queen from selection ( marked) and add to a colony. After check he finds it accepted in that colony and freely moving on the frames. Next to it was the hive with qcells above the excluder ( cloake board). When he come for check of a cells, he found them destroyed and queen from that neighbouring hive ( that bought from selection) in that upper box.. He said that he pay attention to accidentally don't transfer somehow queen.. But can't explain for sure what happened..

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,322

    Default Re: My Cell Building Methods

    Pheromones are a powerful thing. Think of the pheromones exiting a queenless cell builder…the bees pleading for a queen. Quite an attractant.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Roy, Wa
    Posts
    1,600

    Default Re: My Cell Building Methods

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    Isn't that the truth. Every so often something really stupid happens…like a virgin from somewhere else in the apiary enters your cell builder.
    Yeah, that's why I'm making at least six cell builders this year instead of just one or two.
    This stoped my production dead in the water twice last year. Won't be putting all my eggs in one basket again.



    I use a 10 frame cell builder from start to finish though. I like a queenless builder better than queen right. No burr comb on the queen cells for one thing. Easier for me to control population, etc. I like the quality of the resulting cells.

    And they are actually neat colonies. When they are through making me cells and I give them a queen to keep in late summer, they are VERY happy indeed. They build up fast and always overwinter perfectly.


  6. #66
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    932

    Default Re: My Cell Building Methods

    Just curious, Michael, exactly when and where you add the 7 frames of capped brood to the 5 or 6 capped already in the bottom box of the CB colony?

    Also, how many days before you repeat the cycle?

    I'm preparing for an Instrumentally Inseminated queen rearing operation, so my calendar involves drone rearing, drone banking, semen collection (very time consuming), queen rearing, queen banking, insemination, nucleus building, queen introduction, and brood judging . It is somewhat intense, so any suggestions you have for queen rearing calendar is appreciated. It seems that I need to leave a day for myself in there somewhere...

    Very happy to see this post resurrected, and many thanks for your generous support to all of us here on beesource!

    Talon - splitting twice only seems to happen with your earliest split on an incredible year with your best queen, but it does indeed happen sometimes. I have gotten 6 out of a colony that did not split the year before.
    Grozzie - that is how Oldtimer does it, except with one 5-frame nuc that has ventilation screen for a cell starter.
    Lauri - A sad photo of destroyed cells. I know that feeling.
    Last edited by kilocharlie; 04-16-2014 at 08:48 PM.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,322

    Default Re: My Cell Building Methods

    Quote Originally Posted by kilocharlie View Post
    Just curious, Michael, exactly when and where you add the 7 frames of capped brood to the 5 or 6 capped already in the bottom box of the CB colony?

    Also, how many days before you repeat the cycle?
    First, the queen-right colony has at least 8 frames of brood. The box of brood goes on top of the supers…above an excluder.

    It takes 20 days from setup to ripe cells. I pull the cells in the morning and re-charge the cell builder later in the day. So, I repeat every 20 days.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    932

    Default Re: My Cell Building Methods

    Thank you for the response. I saw the video of you lecturing in GB to which lakebilly provided the link after I posted the question, very helpful lecture, BTW. Bravo!, and thank you lakebilly!

    So, Michael, you are adding the 7 extra frames of capped brood to those original 8+? By your original post, the paragraph that begins, "So that's basically Kirk's method...I see Bro Adam did it just a bit differently", Day 1 should see the queenright colony stripped to the broodnest, ridden of queencells, an excluder added, THEN A DEEP WITH 7 CAPPED BROOD FROM O.W.N.'S plus 2 honey?

    One other question: Using your modification of Brother Adam's method, if I am isolating a queen in and excluder partition, that would be Day 8, for switching to queenless & grafting on Day 11?
    Last edited by kilocharlie; 04-17-2014 at 08:37 PM.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Romania, Sibiu
    Posts
    283

    Default Re: My Cell Building Methods

    I have a finishing colony that's overflowing with bees in 2 boxes. I gave them 16 accepted cells from the starter colony together with the bees from the starter. On Saturday(tomorow) the cells will be capped. The colony is and will remain queenless until I will give them one of the cells bellow the excluder in box one.

    The flow is intense right now on black locust.

    Can I give them another bar of 20 cups at the moment the cells are capped? ...and without making another starter... just using this hive as it is.

    If not what would be an acceptable number?

    I guess I already found the answer:

    http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/quee...llbuilder.html
    In my experience a queenless colony won't raise many Q/Cs if given a second batch, so when the first is finished, leave one Q/C and leave the colony alone until you expect the new queen to be laying.
    I might as well delete the whole post.
    Last edited by cristianNiculae; 05-23-2014 at 12:54 AM.
    Dfa (Humid continental warm summer climate)

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    932

    Default Re: My Cell Building Methods

    Cristian - here's a neat trick...use 2 Cloake boards in a 3 box tall colony and you can raise 2 phases of queen cells on the same colony.

    Bottom box - queen and open brood.
    Cloake board
    middle box - 2nd set of queen cell grafts
    Cloake board
    top box - first set of queen cells (capped).

    A 4th box placed in between the middle box and the top box could have 7 extra imported capped brood and a 2-gallon feeder frame 10 days before the second graft. This won't hurt anything, but as always, make damned certain that there are no other queen cells already in there.

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Chandler, AZ
    Posts
    26

    Default Re: My Cell Building Methods

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    Bro Adam did it just a bit differently. I've switched to his setup. On day 1, instead of separating the brood above and below an excluder, he brings in brood from other colonies. So, place an excluder on top of the broodnest of your strong colony and the box of brood (7 frames of brood and 2 feed frames on the outsides). Supers back on top...no queens!
    Could anybody please clarify Brother Adams method? I'm having a hard time visualizing the order. So you have your 2 deep colony with excluder on top then supers and then a box of brood from another colony at very top?

    Would you then proceed to follow all the remaining steps as described by Michael?

    How would this be modified for a 3 deep colony. All my hives are 3 deeps. Would it be wise to split it up to use the resources more efficiently or just use 3 deeps?

    Thank You

  12. #72
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    932

    Default Re: My Cell Building Methods

    aley1511 -
    Brother Adam's books include Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey, In Search of the Best Strains of Bees, both available through Wicwas Press, LLC www.wicwas.com 1620 Miller Road, Kalamazoo, MI 49001, USA. His one other title, Breeding the Honeybee (all of his titles, actually) are also available through Buckfast Abbey's Bookshop, www.buckfast.org.uk

    As they mention, he fails to go into lots of detail about his some of his methods. He lived to a ripe old age, and tried a lot of variations in methods over the years, including incubators and instrumental insemination, all in an environment that demanded the best of practices. His great advantage was that his mating yard was completely isolated from other bees, giving a good degree of control over open-mating. However, it is best to read from the source itself. Get the books and read them, and try to get into his head. His method involved a 3-year cycle to make those Buckfast Bees, not easily accomplished.

    Michael Palmer's variation on Brother Adam's method involves a step toward sustainability - importing frames of brood from over-wintered nucleus colonies instead of honey production colonies. His queen yard made something like 4400 lbs. of honey (correct me, Michael!). Quite impressive, even if I'm off a lot!

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,322

    Default Re: My Cell Building Methods

    Quote Originally Posted by kilocharlie View Post
    Michael Palmer's variation on Brother Adam's method involves a step toward sustainability - importing frames of brood from over-wintered nucleus colonies instead of honey production colonies. His queen yard made something like 4400 lbs. of honey (correct me, Michael!). Quite impressive, even if I'm off a lot!
    2012 was a good honey year and the cell building yard did make that much honey……

    A photo taken by Michael Young of Northern Ireland. No, I don't live in Maine.



  14. #74
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
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    5,322

    Default Re: My Cell Building Methods

    Quote Originally Posted by kilocharlie View Post
    His great advantage was that his mating yard was completely isolated from other bees, giving a good degree of control over open-mating.
    The mating station is still there, and is still used for for that purpose.



  15. #75
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Ojai, California
    Posts
    932

    Default Re: My Cell Building Methods

    We are so humbled and blessed to have you teaching us, Michael. 4,400 THANK YOU's!!!

    That first pic is a sight to behold! The second one, of Brother Adam's mating yard, makes me feel like removing my shoes for I am standing upon grounds that are Holy...

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