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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Polk Co, NC, USA
    Posts
    201

    Thumbs down Nuc to TBH: what NOT to do.

    Just wanted to let you all see what didn't work when trying to gently work my nuc into the top bar...

    http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...4&l=a4f38cc46c

    I think that they also have a queen cell hanging off of the bottom of the nuc frames, but I couldn't get a good picture through the screen.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Accord, NY
    Posts
    333

    Default Re: Nuc to TBH: what NOT to do.

    Works as advertised. That's the way they build upwards. You could take the bottom off that nuc box and put the frames in it. Place them on top of the hive and let them build out to the other bars. They will also try to build their comb down from the frames to fill up all available space. You may want to fill some of the space under the frames with another box so you don't end up with such long comb. Once the brood nest is in the hive you can collect the frames and remove the nuc box. That's if you still want to do it the gentle (difficult) way.
    Depending on the length of your bars, chop and crop might be the easiest way. It's more traumatic for the keeper than the bees.
    Also, in your setup the frames are not oriented with the bars. Turn them 90 degrees or they'll build straight across the bars.
    The best way I see to deal with this is to move them to a Lang for this year. Next year you can put some top bars in the middle of the brood nest. When you have two bars of brood you can move them to the TBH and do a split.
    Good luck!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Nuc to TBH: what NOT to do.

    Nucs do not translate to top bar hives.

    If you really want to go "au natural" and do the Top Bar thing, you should populate with a swarm.

    Other than that is complete BS.

    Packages have nothing natural about them and torturing a nuc is simply cruel.

    Those poor bees put how much hard work into the comb that you are now deeming "worthless" because it doesn't fit with your top bar scheme?

    We're talking about bees here. Please make it easy for them. There's enough out there giving them trouble, beekeepers need to actually make things easier.

    I don't mean to be harsh but I am so sick of people attesting to be "nice" or "natural" or whatever and the bottom line is they have no thought for what the bees actually need.
    Erin Forbes, EAS Master Beekeeper
    overlandhoney.com

  4. #4

    Default Re: Nuc to TBH: what NOT to do.

    While I agree, it isn't perhaps the easiest or best way to install to a tbh with a nuc, I am picking up on some hostility towards the 'natural' crowd.

    let me preface this by saying that I only get bees from cutouts and swarms.

    I don't see the point to make life 'easy' for bees.

    In fact, in a 'natural' situation, that is, when bees ditch people and go pick their own place to live, minus our involvement, life for them is usually very not easy. Life for bees in a 'natural' setting is rife with conflict. pests, predators, adequate hive space or lack therof. 'easy bees' to me are not natural at all. Bees in such an environment are constantly in an adapt and overcome situation. If they don't, off to Darwin's Locker for them.

    Of course, I tend to think the same way about people. We always seem to seek out the 'easy' way when often, the path where we must overcome and adapt is the better route for us.

    that's just me though.

    Big Bear
    No, I am NOT a bee "Keeper". Anything I post is just my opinion. Take it easy and think for yourself.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    1,974

    Default Re: Nuc to TBH: what NOT to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maine_Beekeeper View Post
    I don't mean to be harsh but I am so sick of people attesting to be "nice" or "natural" or whatever and the bottom line is they have no thought for what the bees actually need.
    What are you talking about here? Who's saying they're trying to be "nice" or "natural" in moving a nuc to a top bar? The fact is that it's not always possible to get a package, or a swarm - and the langstroth is the dominant form of hive - and in some areas the lang nuc is becoming the dominant form available to begin beekeeping. So people are trying to figure out how to deal with it. To say that "they have no thought for what the bees actually need" sounds a bit like raving.

    People are using top bars for a variety of reasons. It's not all about being "nice" or "natural". And if that's your concern - they'd probably be better off if you just left them alone in the wild. There's nothing especially "nice" or "natural" about taking a big portion of their stores every season, or manipulating them to keep them from swarming, or rearing and selling Queens, propolis, beeswax, or royal jelly - or beekeeping at all for that matter.

    You say, "Those poor bees put how much hard work into the comb that you are now deeming "worthless" because it doesn't fit with your top bar scheme?"

    You mean like all the comb you break or scrape or remove every year from between your boxes and frames? Beekeeping involves a lot of manipulation - there's nothing natural about it. And any number of the things we've done to "make it easier"on them over the years could end up being the key to their extinction.

    You seem to be drawing arbitrary lines in the sand on morals and values, and it just isn't helpful to anyone.

    Adam
    Last edited by Barry; 06-30-2010 at 09:36 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Polk Co, NC, USA
    Posts
    201

    Default Re: Nuc to TBH: what NOT to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maine_Beekeeper View Post
    Nucs do not translate to top bar hives.
    Amen to that. That is exactly what I am finding. The whole reason for this post is to save some other newbeek (and their bees) from going through this. But, being new to all of this I am learning. alot. painfully.

    [QUOTE=Maine_Beekeeper;556397]If you really want to go "au natural" and do the Top Bar thing, you should populate with a swarm. [/QUOTE}

    "'Au natural" is not really what I was going for. It is just a nice bi-product. Less invasive, less stressful. Less chemical, better pollination for my crops, teach my kids that bees are incredible, organized, amazing creatures? THAT is what I was going for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maine_Beekeeper View Post
    Packages have nothing natural about them and torturing a nuc is simply cruel.

    Those poor bees put how much hard work into the comb that you are now deeming "worthless" because it doesn't fit with your top bar scheme?
    I did indeed have to remove a lot of their hard work, not because I "deemed it worthless" but because I deemed it illegal. In NC you must be able to inspect each frame. Honestly, I think you took it harder than they did. I took it harder than they did too. "Torture" is simply not my thing. Mistakes, THAT seems to be my thing.

    But as far as making life "easier for the bees" I think that we all know this is a double edged sword.

    This is my very first attempt at beekeeping. It is off to a rocky start. I went to buy a hive yesterday and the local bee supply shop encouraged me to continue with this TBH for a few more weeks. I moved it around like ARAM suggested. LOTS of honey. Not much brood space. I see how this could work if I had the fortitude to remove all of their winter stores once they were in the TBH. I am moving them into a lang today then I am not going to mess with them again for a long, long, time.
    Last edited by Lauren; 07-01-2010 at 05:47 AM. Reason: forgot to add something.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Dexter, Maine
    Posts
    1,037

    Default Re: Nuc to TBH: what NOT to do.

    Lauren,
    I am not a big fan of TBHs myself, most here in Maine seem to die out over winter, and that is not good for the bees I think if you want to use a TBH at some point you should go with chop and crop, (there is a great video on youtube) or with a swarm as stated, however I have seen alot of post were bees absconded from a TBH this spring.

    Anyway I see you move to a lang as a good one, as for "not going to mess with them again for a long, long, time" you will need to feed them, check on their stores and available space, as well as that NC state required inspection. Don't be discouraged to the point you become a "beehaver" your bees need to be worked, you will enjoy it (or you have the wrong hobby) and your kids will see the wonders of a super organism at work.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Nuc to TBH: what NOT to do.

    Lauren - I'm glad to hear that you got them a Lang box - your nuc will do well in it, and even better if you feed them while they build out their nest combs (feeding = wax secretion) Top Bar Hives really aren't that much less invasive or less stressful, and ofcourse the chemicals are all up to you in any type of hive. You can definitely keep bees in traditional equipment with minimal stress on the bees - it is 90% in your management, 10% equipment I hope your bees have a great summer, set up well, and winter strong. If that is the case, you'll likely have a swarm next year and you can install them easily into your TBH. Best to you and your bees, -E.
    Erin Forbes, EAS Master Beekeeper
    overlandhoney.com

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Accord, NY
    Posts
    333

    Default Re: Nuc to TBH: what NOT to do.

    Your new setup looks great. Congratulations!
    Quote Originally Posted by Aram View Post
    Depending on the length of your bars, chop and crop might be the easiest way.
    What kind of person quotes himself?!?
    Chop and crop would not have worked very easily in your case. It looks like your top bars are shorter than 19" so you would have had to cut the top of the frame also or let it hang over the edge of the hive in which case the roof would probably not have fit. Either way would have been messy and a lot of comb lost. Next year you can do a split into the top bar hive.
    Omie, here you go Page two

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