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How often should we be opening the hive?

34K views 75 replies 30 participants last post by  WBVC 
#1 ·
My daughter and love working with the hive, and we have been in it 4 times the last two weeks. we don't open it unless the temp is over 50 degrees. but now that we know that things are well and how fast they are using the syrup, how often should we be opening the hive? We don't want to do harm to the bees.

-Bill
 
#2 ·
Bill in my opinion you can open your bees as much as you like taking the waether into account of course.
I dont see that it does them any harm at all especially when they are on a flow and too busy to worry that you are there.
I open my cell raisers and finishers everyday in the season and dosn't seem to make any difference to them.

half the fun of having a beehive is getting in amongst it and seeing what they are up too.:D

kiwi
 
#3 ·
Since you asked, There are varying suggestions you will find in the many books and postings out there.

Most will likely suggest one shouldn't go through a 'full' inspection more than once a week, others might suggest not more than once every couple weeks and others will go so far as to say that a 'full, comb by comb inspection is only warranted twice a year with lesser inspections that involve more entrance observations and quick checks under the lid sparingly so as to least disturb the hive scent and activity.

There's a lot one can learn from just watching the entrance. of course, that said, there's a lot to be learned from opening the hive.

You have to develop a schedule that works best for you and the bees in your yard.

My own thinking is that each hive and bee yard has it's own 'personality' in terms of what i twill and will not tolerate.

Big Bear
 
#64 ·
Being a new 'beekeeper' with only one hive in my garden, it's good to be able to search for answers to questions as they arise. This post was some years ago, but the article in the link above reflects what I feel is right - if someone kept removing the roof of our house to peek inside, I'd get annoyed too... Of course, in Australia we don't have as many problems with our bees, yet it makes sense that if all looks well at the entrance of the hive, why stress the bees unnecessarily? Thanks Chris!
 
#6 ·
I don't know that there is not a proper answer for "should". From the standpoint of the bees, we should never open the hive. Every time we so much as crack a propolis seal, let alone actually move boards or combs, we alter the micro-climate maintained within the hive. That micro-climate is a complex homogeneity of ventilating air currents, temperature and moisture variations, gas compositions, chemical (hormone) mixtures, auditory or vibratory status and signals, right on down to microscopic flora and fauna. It takes time and energy to re-establish a workable micro-climate.

Some folks will guffaw at the idea of nest scent and temperature. Great. Let them. The bees notice. If not for extreme sensitivity to small changes in atmosphere, how can drones find a virgin on her mating flight when miles away and upwind?!? If you think the bees don't notice, you're delusional.

There also is your time and labor and enjoyment to consider. Working the bees is, well, work. Plenty of bending and lifting and squinting at tiny things with the sun and sweat in your eyes and that constant tickle in your nose that tells you you're gonna sneeze. And they sting. But watching these critters fly and run about and live their lives and do other bee things on their combs is fascinating, can be watched for hours and is more educational than a whole season of Nova! And it is oddly relaxing seeing them buzz about; just gives you a peaceful feeling that all is right with the world.

So. Ideally, you disturb the hive once per year - at honey harvest.

Practically, though, you are unlikely to cause any severe deleterious affects if you're in the hive every day. There may be some brood lost to chilling and you'll probably get a little less honey and maybe more propolis if you aren't careful to scrape every time you're there. Ultimately, if you're in the hive to be a tourist, invest in an observation hive. In fact, get one anyway. They're just fun.
 
#9 ·
I dont get this? why do you feel you have to leave the bees alone?

How will you learn anything about a beehive if you dont know what you are looking at?
You wont know whats normal ,
you wont know if your hive conditions have changed
you wont know if they need feed or pollen or treatments or whether they have a failing queen or about to swarm or anything!

These guys are new to bees and have the thrill of learning about there bees ahead of them, they should be getting their heads into their hive and learning if they dont the next time you get a post from them it will be...

Last time we looked in our hive it was fine now it's got no bees and no brood what's wrong what do we do?

Kiwi
 
#11 ·
open, enjoy, and inspect your hive on a regular basis. Its the only way you are going to learn, and also the only way you will know if a problem arrises. Be careful, move slow, and pay attention, but most of all enjoy!!!! I applaud you getting your daughter involved, both my kids love to go to the beeyards and look at the bees.
 
#12 ·
IMO that is exactly the attitude that has caused so many losses to disease and so-called CCD. The more you disturb a colony, the more you stress them. The more you stress them, the more susceptible to infection they become. The more you open the hive and break their defensive propolis seal, the more opportunities for invasive bacteria and viruses.

Unlike us, bees have a very limited internal immune system - most of it is externalized as a propolis shield. Every time you open the hive and poke around, you tear up that shield.

Also, read this article about the importance of maintaining hive atmosphere, which argues strongly against unnecessary disturbance.

If you want a daily learning opportunity, build yourself an observation hive.
 
#13 ·
To say that opening hives causes CCD is a rather wild statement we dont have CCD here in NZ or OZ does that mean none of us are opening our hives? LOL heck no!

In the spring and summer here there's hardly any propolis in the hives you dont see them bringing it in until Autumn when they are settling down for winter.

I guess you take what you think to be true and go with it,

For me that means opening my hives and knowing whats going on with them.
In the spring and summer it's more intensive, Autumn not hardly and winter practically never.

As a beekeeper you keep bees and you need to know whats going on in your hive thats really important.
As a Beehaver you just have bees and dont need to know whats going on in your hive.

kiwi
 
#14 ·
To say that opening hives causes CCD is a rather wild statement
I didn't say that. It's the attitude of unrelenting interference, including multiple medications, that does the damage.

In the spring and summer here there's hardly any propolis in the hives you dont see them bringing it in until Autumn when they are settling down for winter.
Then your bees behave differently to mine.

I guess you take what you think to be true and go with it,
No, I observe and I use my reasoning ability and draw comparisons to other living things. How well do you think your plants would grow if you dug them up ever week to check the roots were still there?

As a beekeeper you keep bees and you need to know whats going on in your hive thats really important.
The bees already know what is going on. They have been evolving here for 50 million years - 20 times longer than us - so I don't find it necessary to 'know' what is going on. It simply is not possible for us to really 'know' in any case - we can only interpret from our perspective, which is not the same thing. Most of what I read about bee behaviour is anthropomorphism: even down to labels like 'queen bee'.

As a Beehaver you just have bees and dont need to know whats going on in your hive.
Perjorative language does not constitute an argument, but merely reinforces prejudice.

If you can only gather information about what is going on in your hives by opening them, then you are limiting yourself as a beekeeper. Simply by using your senses of sight, smell and hearing at the entrance should give you all the information you really need to know.
 
#15 ·
everyone has their own opinion. Making judgements on others based on those opinions probably isn't the best thing to do. For me, I listen to the bees. I don't consider myself a beekeeper or a bee haver. I am a bee conservationist.

In my methodology, I let the bees tell me what and how much attention they need.

If my initial observations of each hive upon arrival at the beeyard indicate there is stress or other possible problems in the hive, I then take the next step to a brief and limited peek inside the hive. if at that time there is more evidence to a problem they might need help with, I will then do a full inspection.

If at any of these times, there are no indicators of problems, then I limit my inspection to observing and taking information externally.

I find by studying bee biology and behavior, that the bees are able to tell me when they need assistance instead of imposing what I want to do on them.

There is a very good book out there called "At The Hive Entrance" by H Storch that goes into explicit detail of what to look for, listen, smell, etc simply by observing the outside of the hive.

I and others who think similarly do indeed believe that preserving nest scent and environment is of the highest priority.

Big Bear
 
#19 ·
c'mon guys, really? now you're going to hijack this thread for another argument?

No wonder people are getting tired of you.

The man asked a question about what people think is appropriate for going into a hive. it's fine to express opinions, but anymore, things are just getting too carried away.

Bottom line, each person needs to decide for themselves, based on their own unique set of circumstances, experience and geography on how to manage their hives.

Big Bear
 
#20 · (Edited)
The man asked a question about what people think is appropriate for going into a hive. it's fine to express opinions, but anymore, things are just getting too carried away.

Bottom line, each person needs to decide for themselves, based on their own unique set of circumstances, experience and geography on how to manage their hives.
I agree. Ultimately, they're your bees. Keep them how you like and I will keep mine how I like. Eventually, you will form and hold opinions about what is appropriate and what is not. Until then, just do what feels right.

I still say you should get an observation hive, though. Every beekeeper should keep an observation hive for at least one season. The education is invaluable.
 
#21 ·
I am a brand new beek--3 weeks in to this. I am certain that just about everything I've done is near wrong, lol. I don't know how else I am going to learn the good and the bad without looking in my hive. I anticipate not having to do it so often once I learn what is normal and what is not.

If I am wrong, will someone come and consfiscate my bees??? (Might be for their own good... :) )
 
#27 · (Edited)
I am a brand new beek--3 weeks in to this. I am certain that just about everything I've done is near wrong, lol. I don't know how else I am going to learn the good and the bad without looking in my hive. I anticipate not having to do it so often once I learn what is normal and what is not.
If I am wrong, will someone come and consfiscate my bees??? (Might be for their own good... :) )


this makes sense to me....if you're new to it, you have to learn...once the 'new' wears off, you'll probably spend less time inside the hive...

but for now, I'd check it whenever I felt like checking it...being careful though
 
#24 ·
putting your judgmental and argumentative comments aside, the OP is trying to figure out for himself what is 'regular' inspections.

He wants to know if once a week, once every two weeks, etc... is an appropriate interval for checking the hives without unduly interfering with the colony or causing some rukus he, the OP, doesn't intend to happen.

I can say that I once spoke to Dr Marion Ellis, of the University of Nebraska, who is a very well known bee researcher and beekeeper. He does not think going into a hive too often is a good idea either as it can interrupt the hive environment leading to chilled brood and other issues.

I agree that if one wants to learn from seeing the bees in action on a constant basis, an observation hive is the better way to go and will provide the best opportunity to see all you can see of hive behavior and activity.

However, to repeat myself, NONE of us are the authoritative answer here. You are free and encouraged to make your own informed decisions as it will work best for you and your bees.

Big Bear
 
#25 · (Edited)
putting your judgmental and argumentative comments aside, the OP is trying to figure out for himself what is 'regular' inspections.[QUOTE/]

However, to repeat myself, NONE of us are the authoritative answer here. You are free and encouraged to make your own informed decisions as it will work best for you and your bees.
Big Bear
On your first sentence, What did I say that was argumentative and judgemental?

On the last sentence, I absolutely agree with you.

kiwi
 
#26 ·
how often should we be opening the hive? We don't want to do harm to the bees.
I think the knowledge you gain from having your head and hands inside a hive in the learning stage out weighs the potential "setback" it might cause the hive. The first year or two when I started had me looking in quite often. Be as least disrupting as possible. Enjoy learning.
 
#28 ·
So how would you like it if I came over to your house as soon as you moved in and removed all the locks…so I could come and go as I please? On my first and all subsequent visits I remove all the weather stripping and calking around all the doors and windows. On one visit I decide to move the bedrooms and bathrooms downstairs and put the living and dining rooms upstairs. Don’t get too upset if I kill your mother because if you behave I’ll give you another one tomorrow. How would it set with you if each visit involves the loss of warm blankets in the baby’s bedroom? Better have your guard up because you will never know when I might decide to run chemical drills on ya! You are not allowed to have any extra food in the house because it is mine. Half of what I eat comes out of a can so you can eat this junk too. By the way quit calling the fire company every time I visit…. I just love the smell of smoke and I’m thoroughly amused at the way you guys run hysterically to the pantry to grab all the food you can carry. You know how you like to channel the airflow in the house to make it more comfortable… not allowed. All wax boundaries are at my discretion as well as any extra disinfectants in the house… no need for all these antimicrobials you’ve placed around the house. I see you have added boys to the house….did you not see the “no boys allowed” sign. Now we have to kill all the boys. See what a waste of time it is to raise boys around here. Sorry all your beds are the same size but you will grow into them or die, at which point we will move a new family in to take your place. We have instructed all our friends to remove their locks too so don’t try to leave…we have ways of dealing with this too! So while your new home and lifestyle take prison and slavery to a new level, please enjoy your stay. See you tomorrow and make lots of honey.
 
#33 ·
So how would you like it if I came over to your house as soon as you moved in and removed all the locks…so I could come and go as I please? On my first and all subsequent visits I remove all the weather stripping and calking around all the doors and windows. On one visit I decide to move the bedrooms and bathrooms downstairs and put the living and dining rooms upstairs. ...................................................
Wow, come on guys these are insects we are talking about.
 
#32 ·
My post is not directed at anyone. It was merely meant to point out various ways we manipulate the bees to suit our needs. It was just food for thought. If you don’t like what I cook, don’t eat it. If you like what I smoke then smoke it. I have come to realize that one’s rationalizing is in direct proportion to one’s approach to manipulation of bees.

PS. This post is not directed at anyone…drinking and smoking optional.

Thanks Barry, I am feeling better.
 
#35 ·
At next month's meeting of our local bee club, I will be bringing a single deep or a nuc to the meeting, and I am giving an outdoor presentation. I'm calling it "What's inside the beehive." Folks will get hands on experience playing with bees, and we're just going to be snooping around in a hive for no reason other than curiousity.

The bees will just have to get over it if they don't like it.
 
#36 ·
I have noticed that my outyards tend to do much better than the bees that I keep at the house (which I constantly have my nose in:)) I think they do better with only minimal disturbance.... I came to this conclusion after a few years of constant supervision and tinkering.:D
How in the world are you going to learn about what's best for the bees if you don't get in there and watch? The downside of disturbing one hive to often is far outweighed by the upside of the knowledge gained wich will keep you from making mistakes that harm your bees in the future.
 
#37 ·
That's part of gaining experience as one works with bees is to get the 'feel' for things. It's one thing to read about it from others, something else entirely to do it yourself.

One must expect problems and issues to arise as the learning process goes on but much of things depend on one's attitude.

If someone really is concerned for the bees, their sense of concern and responsibility will help to limit actions that have negative impact on the bees as those persons don't want to see that effect or impact happen again or to be the cause of it.


Of course, there are those for whom there is no connection to the bees and they are simply a commodity to them. Assuming they can go and buy more bees if something happens as a child might buy more marbles if he loses or breaks those he has.

It takes all kinds.

Big Bear
 
#38 · (Edited)
The degree to which any particular hive is affected by opening it and inspecting also varies greatly between different hives. I have had hives that were probably AHB that were highly disturbed just because I approached within fifty feet of the hive. I presently have bees that will offer the occasional sting if the circumstances are right, but that otherwise appear entirely unaffected when I completely disassemble their home - in these hives I can even remove the comb where the queen is busy laying, walk it a few hundred yards to the house, take it into the house to show it to my paraplegic wife (who is inside in her easy chair), on this comb, we can watch the foragers dance, the nurse bees nurse, the house bees do what they do, and the queen continue to lay eggs. Usually, not a single bee will fly off the comb to be captured by our skylight, then after we've watched them for about twenty minutes, or so, walk the comb back out to their hive, return it to its position, do the same with all their other combs and close the hive back up. These are the kinds of bees I remember keeping back when I first started to keep bees. It is nice that the majority of my hives are again behaving in similar fashion.

I can't say that my frequent looking inside hives doesn't disrupt the bees. But I can say that how much they are disrupted can depend as much on how the bees respond to being disrupted as it does on the beekeepers technique, and as to how they are disrupted.
 
#42 ·
I agree that new beeks should go in the hive and get educated when necessary and enjoy themselves while they do it. But going in just for fun is detrimental to the bees. While you are laughing and slapping your knees at the ignorant buffoon who is anthropomorphizing his bees you are ignoring some important facts. When you open the hive and disrupt their workings they must now fix it….you only destroy and never rebuild. They may be set back as much as three days putting the hive back together. They don’t have a ready reserve to repair the battle damage so there is a disruption in the gathering of stores. If these three days were major flow days, they missed it. If the three days were followed by rain then they stay home and eat stores… further setting them back. They now after let’s say three events have only enough stores to maybe make it through the winter. But you are going to take the stores for yourself and feed them slop and hope they make until next season. But none of this really matters anyway they are just stupid insects.
 
#45 ·
While you are laughing and slapping your knees at the ignorant buffoon who is anthropomorphizing his bees you are ignoring some important facts.

They may be set back as much as three days putting the hive back together. They don’t have a ready reserve to repair the battle damage so there is a disruption in the gathering of stores. If these three days were major flow days, they missed it. If the three days were followed by rain then they stay home and eat stores… further setting them back. They now after let’s say three events have only enough stores to maybe make it through the winter.

But you are going to take the stores for yourself and feed them slop and hope they make until next season. But none of this really matters anyway they are just stupid insects.
Dave after reading your post I had to re read it twice more.
I really take issue with some of what you say.

Your first sentence quoted about laughing and slapping of knees.
What a load of bollocks I dont know anyone who even gives this a thought let alone have a laugh fest over it.

Your paragraph quoted in the middle is IMHO also a load of bollocks,
if you do the maths then there would hardly be a beeehive alive if by opening them 3 times in a season they are not going to make it through winter!

And the bit about it taking 3 days to rebuild what you destroyed and in those 3 days they dont bring in any stores that is not my experience and I know of noone who would advocate that.

Lastly to say that the stores are all taken and they are fed "slop" because who cares they are only insects, what the heck is that all about?

You are obviously against opening hives and thats fine I dont have a problem with that, but to post such rot and to put down beekeepers that do open hives is really childish and not helpful to anyone.

Kiwi
 
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