Wind Power

[Barry]

I took this yesterday just for Sundance. These are on Rt. 47 just south of I55 starting at E2400 N Road. You will see them on Google Maps. They've been up for about a year now and a lot of them just started operating within the last couple of months. I've traveled this section of road many, many times over my lifetime as I grew up about 75 miles south of there.

[WLC]

Nice shot.

If anyone needs some feathers for fly fishing (tie Your own), just check the fields by the pylons.

[Sundance]

Thanks Barry......... good to see. Up here we have the
Langdon Wind Farm of a bit over 100 of the 1.5 MW
turbines.

As to bird deaths.......... that is a myth. And not even
close to having an impact on bird populations of any
consequence. The link below will substantiate that.

Here's a cut and paste summarizing the bird death
facts.

"In the United States, cars and trucks wipe out millions of birds each year, while 100 million to 1 billion birds collide with windows. According to the 2001 National Wind Coordinating Committee study, “Avian Collisions with Wind Turbines: A Summary of Existing Studies and Comparisons to Other Sources of Avian Collision Mortality in the United States," these non-wind mortalities compare with 2.19 bird deaths per turbine per year. That's a long way from the sum mortality caused by the other sources."

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006...n_misconce.php

[WLC]

http://audubonmagazine.org/features0609/energy.html

Even if biologists underestimate the number of birds killed by turbines, the damage is surely smaller, in orders of magnitude, than the numbers killed in other ways. While a 2001 study surmised that some 10,000 to 40,000 birds die in wind turbines each year, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service contends that these numbers are out of date and that the true mortality figures are much higher.

Pete Bloom, a former wildlife biologist for National Audubon who works as a consultant for the wind industry, worries about what he calls the “poofing factor”—migrating songbirds that collide with the massive turbine blades and could simply be obliterated, leaving no evidence on the ground and thus further skewing the numbers.

Batter up, "poof!"

[brac]

The last figure I heard was about 3 watts per square foot, total production. If they were not getting government money, they would never put them up. What a waste of good land.

[alpha6]

Hey Barry,

What was the nose like? I have heard that this is now becoming the number one problem in placing these things near populated areas. I wouldn't think it would make that much noise but I haven't been near one let alone 100 of um. Either people have nothing better to complain about or it's a concern.

[Sundance]

Hey Barry,

What was the nose like?

Not Barry....... but........... I've stood at the base of
the Langdon ones. And they make noise, but hardly
objectionable, and not loud.

[Sundance]

"...10,000 to 40,000 birds die in wind turbines each year,..."

Now that is a small amount, even if underestimated by
a factor of10. The bird/glass impacts alone are 100 million
to 1 billion.

They are just a non-factor in bird deaths.

[Sundance]

The last figure I heard was about 3 watts per square foot, total production. If they were not getting government money, they would never put them up. What a waste of good land.

Name a power generator that does not get
subsidized??

Per Fiscal Year 2007 the total of all renewable energy
federal subsidies was $4,875,000,000. And the total
for all fossil fuel subsidies.. $10,781,000,000

3 watts per foot?? Swept area? Height? Certainly
not the footprint. I think this number is way off, at
least for here in the wind belt.

As to the land........ Here they farm right up to the
base. The footprint is pretty darn small.

[brac]

The figure of 3watts per square foot, was for the amount of land used. It was quoted by Proffessor Dick Hill, so it may have been Maine specific.

[WLC]

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...year-wind-farm

According to the Chicaogo tribune article, there are a number of folks who aren't as thrilled about wind power as some of you might be. It seems that the wind farm has changed their way of life.

As for the reported 2.19 bird deaths per turbine per year...

I would consider what Pete Bloom, a wildlife biologist, had to say about migrating song birds going 'poof'. Nothing left to count.

I think that time will tell the tale of how much of a negative impact these turbines can really have.

As a source of hackles and other feathers for fly fishing, these turbines can be a real bonanza.

[Sundance]

I would consider what Pete Bloom, a wildlife biologist, had to say about migrating song birds going 'poof'. Nothing left to count.

As a biologist myself, I think the "poof" factor is
a bit silly. The terminal velocity of the large blunt
blades is hardly fast enough to vaporize a bird.

And as to a source of hackles..... you'd do much
better along the highway, lots better.

[Sundance]

The figure of 3watts per square foot, was for the amount of land used. It was quoted by Proffessor Dick Hill, so it may have been Maine specific.

Not sure what he's using for data. The turbines here
have a footprint of maybe 60 feet in diameter or
roughly 2800 sq ft. (and that's on the generous side)
and produce 1.5 mega watts or roughly 535 watts
per square foot.

But we digress. I loves them windmills

[WLC]

What I found interesting is that the community where these turbines are located has become divided.

It looks like those poor people are losing sleep over it. They have filed suit against the land owners where these turbines are located and the wind turbine company that operates them.

Altamont in California was a previous battle ground for wind turbines. Do you think that this might become another Altamont?

I'm reminded of the hydrofracking for natural gas controversy that has occurred here in NY and Penn. Some poor fellow had flames shooting out of his kitchen faucet.

So, while maybe the migratory songbirds going 'poof' might not be a factor (according to some), I'd say that dozens of angry residents and their legal counsel won't go 'poof'.

Perhaps the wind farm will ultimately go 'poof'?

[fish_stix]

Whine, Whine, Whine!!! Some folks would complain if you backed a dumptruck of gold into their front yard and dumped it, but didn't stack it for them! Bird deaths from windmills!! The state of Michigan recently estimated that feral cats kill upwards of 50,000,000 birds each year in MI. I'd bet the dang birds will learn real fast to stay away from those blades. As far as going "poof!" I'm calling BS on that one. I was a pilot in the Navy and once hit a large goose at 180 knots, right on the leading edge of the left wing . The entire goose was found buried in the wing; no "poof!" Just dead, mangled, bird and airplane!

[brac]

Not sure what he's using for data. The turbines here
have a footprint of maybe 60 feet in diameter or
roughly 2800 sq ft. (and that's on the generous side)
and produce 1.5 mega watts or roughly 535 watts
per square foot.

But we digress. I loves them windmills

I'll have to find out.

[Naturegoods]

Wind farms popping up all over the place here along the western NY/PA border area. Not that the wind is any better but they say the local rural economy is so bad that there aren't the resources available to sustain the fight against them.
DRILL, BABY DRILL!

[WLC]

Whine, Whine, Whine!!! Some folks would complain if you backed a dumptruck of gold into their front yard and dumped it, but didn't stack it for them! Bird deaths from windmills!! The state of Michigan recently estimated that feral cats kill upwards of 50,000,000 birds each year in MI. I'd bet the dang birds will learn real fast to stay away from those blades. As far as going "poof!" I'm calling BS on that one. I was a pilot in the Navy and once hit a large goose at 180 knots, right on the leading edge of the left wing . The entire goose was found buried in the wing; no "poof!" Just dead, mangled, bird and airplane!

Don't like the birds?

How about this...

Property values have gone down as a result of wind farms being located in that community.

How would you like to be stuck with an underwater mortgage and no way out? Add to that the constant background noise, lights, shadows, etc. .

You know what the real 'kick in the pants' is to this? They had a power outage for days. The wind turbines were generating power O.K., but it was going to another distant power grid.



I'd say that those 36 people still living out there have rights as well.

PS-It will take some time to see what kind of environmental impact a wind farm of this scale really has.

[Sundance]

There are no wind farms even close to housing
developments. If you find one, please provide
a link and pics.

Our local VoTech institute has just added the
program of Wind Turbine Technician. And they
are booked solid. Lots of nice, blue collar, higher
paying jobs.

[WLC]

Hey, are you one of those 'wind power' guys?

I'm not going to argue with you about it. While wind power has caused many problems in upstate New York, I'm far more concerned about how hydrofracking for natural gas can pollute our pristine streams and ground water.

Let it play out. It's pretty easy to follow on google news anyway.

I wonder if those folks will win?

By the way, do you think that they are aware of the Migratory Bird Treaty Act?

I wonder? They might have to close down those turbines for 6 months out of the year.