Feeding Fumagilin B

[beehive]

How long after feeding Fumagilin B can i add my Honey supers?

[honeydreams]

I don't use Fumagilin B.

[peacekeeperapiaries]

If you dont use fumigillin then why even respond to this post?

BEEHIVE it is recommended that Fumigillin use be completed 4 weeks prior to honeyflow according to several different sources.

[honeyshack]

The nice thing about feeding fumagilin in the spring in gallon pails or quart sealers, before a bloom is they will not really store the feed. They will consume it as fast as you can give it to them so they have the energy to make more bees.
They will rather consume this feed early on instead of crystalized honey because it is less work for them at a time when the energy needs are high and their strength and numbers are low.

[rkr]

Can you use some homemade or commercial HBH in the syrup or will it effect the Fumagilin B in a negative way? I looked here and elsewhere and did not find a solid answer.

RKR

[honeyshack]

Our proffesional apiarist at the University suggests not to since there is no study on the reaction of the two combined. One might cancel the other out and it might be $ down the drain.

[rkr]

Thanks Honeyshack, good info!!
Thanks RKR

[Oldbee]

"If you dont use fumigillin then why even respond to this post?"

Good point,.."peace"-keeper! -


"The nice thing about feeding fumagilin in the spring in gallon pails or quart sealers, before a bloom is they will not really store the feed." ->> "Our proffesional apiarist at the University suggests...."--honeyshack.

Does that mean that Fumagilin-B will be effective thoughout the year, and specifically over the winter in northern climates? That would be nice to know, since there would be less chance of contamination of honey stores.

[honeyshack]

"The nice thing about feeding fumagilin in the spring in gallon pails or quart sealers, before a bloom is they will not really store the feed." ->> "Our proffesional apiarist at the University suggests...."--honeyshack.

Does that mean that Fumagilin-B will be effective thoughout the year, and specifically over the winter in northern climates? That would be nice to know, since there would be less chance of contamination of honey stores.

i am not sure what your question is. So if i answer wrong, I am sorry.

Spring feeding is different than fall feeding for the winter. The spring feeding of fumagilin, you want them to consume it to clean up the nosema so they can get on with doing what they do best...build the strength of the colony for the summer flow.
Fall Feeding however, you want them to store the fumagilin so that they have access to the fumagilin when they need it. And most would agree, the hives that make it through the winter will use up most of their stores by spring, hence the reason why we feed.

The Canadian Honey Council is trying to get the beekeepers of Canada to not extract brood frames of honey for this very reason...contamination of the honey for consumption. This would not only include fumagilin b, but also terimyacin, and mite treatments.


Right now in Canada, there is a pilot program under way to give the beekeeper $2.00 per frame that is sent to a specified location for rendering, up to $1000.00 a year. That is 500 frames you get paid to recycle...and I believe, you get the wax payout as well. The frames need to be intact.

[Oldbee]

"i am not sure what your question is." --honeyshack.

Some beekeepers just starting out have experienced/seen some indication of Nosema; like a lot of spotting of dark feces around the entrances etc. This may be just dysentery but new beekeepers have been encouraged to not treat for Nosema and then find their hives,..mysteriously dead in the spring.

I want to know, if by treating only in the spring, would that be adequate for northern beekeepers whose hives have to cooped up for 4-5 months?

Some beekeepers are ADAMANT that Fumagilin is,....well,..almost a cancer causing vicious poison that we put into our hives and honey. Almost all the suppliers and beekeeping associations recommend some use of Fumagilin to control Nosema. So,..what is the truth about Fumagilin? Is it dangerous or not?? We need to know the truth.

[honeyshack]

i think the best i can offer you and new beeks is test for nosema.
yes you need a microscope, however if you know or can find a vet in you area, they have a microscope that is as efficient if not better than what you need
Then work with the vet. There are pics on line that show nosema. Randy Oliver's site gives details on how to test. My recommendation is to take field bees, get the girls that are near the entrances.

Does fumagilin work for us in the north? For the most part yes. Feeding in the spring does a world of good. It sets back the nosema spores giving the bees the chance to brood up for the summer when we need the bees the most. Our season of foraging is short, we need to make the best of it. I say the most part because even through the best efforts sometimes it's hard to get under control. I have a friend in Alberta who has used the stuff. He saw signs of nosema and decided to treat. However, the bees were in bad shape and did not take the feed. In a yard of 30, 8 were alive by the end of summer. He tried the drench, by the pail, any way he could think of to get them to take the feed. It did not work.
There is more to sickness than just the spores. For example, nutrition, weather, mites, and other factors. If even one of these is not "right" fighting nosema could be a losing battle. Note i said could be. To fight nosema we have to look at the whole picture. Nutrition and mites being the first in the line in which we can control.
Does it work...yes, but you also have to look at the other factors involved and correct them as well...

[Omie]

Fumagilin b is an antibiotic, right?

[honeyshack]

Fumagilin b is an antibiotic, right?

NO it is not. The best term to describe, a fungicide. Nosema are spores, not a bacteria.

And the point of the question?

[peterloringborst]

I believe you are splitting hairs. The name should refer to what it is used for, and if I use alcohol to kill bacteria, it is an antibiotic. If I drink it, it becomes a recreational drug. Anyway, the following is more pertinent.

Since the introduction of antibiotics, their use in intestinal amebiasis has been suggested by various workers in this field. Penicillin was used by Hargreaves (1945) in England and by Halawani et at. (1950) in Egypt, who found it effective in the treatment of several cases of severe amebic dysentery. Oxytetracycline (Terramycin) and Chlortetracycline (Aureomycin) were tried ...

In 1949 a new antibiotic, fumagillin, was isolated from an aspergillus culture by Hanson and Eble (1949). In America, it was found that its activity on fungi, bacteria and viruses is very small, but it was found active against the ameba.

GAMAL NOR EL-DIN. 1956. THE USE OF FUMAGILLIN IN THE TREATMENT OF AMEBIASIS. Research Institute for Tropical Disease, Cairo, Egypt

[Omie]

And the point of the question?

The point of my question is so I can know exactly what kind of medication or treatment Fumagilin B is while reading this discussion. Do I have to declare a 'point' to ask a question?

[honeyshack]

The point of my question is so I can know exactly what kind of medication or treatment Fumagilin B is while reading this discussion. Do I have to declare a 'point' to ask a question?

My apologies. I mis understood the tone of the question. First thing that came to mind was a "no treat no treat" "Fumagilin is bad".... and i misunderstood

Sorry

HS

[peterloringborst]

Actually, the term antibiotic has much broader use now, as seen by this definition:

a medicine that inhibits the growth of or destroys microorganisms.
from anti- + Greek biōtikos ‘fit for life’ (from bios ‘life’ ).

Any agent that is used to kill microorganisms, such as essential oils, heat, radiation, bleach, etc. would be considered an antibiotic by this definition.

[Omie]

Well, I think I know less now than when I asked the question!

I am definitely confused, since no matter how I google Fum-B, I keep seeing it described as an antibiotic. Either that or the somewhat vague term 'medication'. So far i haven't seen it described as a fungicide, miticide or pesticide, etc. Is it an antibiotic along the lines of pennicillin or terramicyn? (forgive spellings please).

[HVH]

Maybe I can make it more confusing. Nosema used to be considered an amoeba but was later reclassified as a fungus. The generic term antibiotic can apply to any micro-organism but antimycotic would be more specific to fungi.

[peterloringborst]

Not only did I explain the use of the term antibiotic but I also provided the correct spelling of penicillin and terramycin. When you say "along the lines of" what on earth do you mean?

Do you mean is it made from mold, like penicillin? The answer would be yes. But not all antibiotics are made from mold. Wikipedia may be helpful if you want to understand what antibiotics are and what they do:

Antibiotics are commonly classified based on their mechanism of action, chemical structure or spectrum of activity. Most antibiotics target bacterial functions or growth processes.

An antibiotic is basically a selective poison. But this would include a variety of substances such as salt, chlorine, alcohol, iodine, etc. as well as more selective antibiotics like ampicillin, fumagillin, chloramphenicol, sulfathiazole, etc.

If your interest is in whether putting fumagillin into hives another form of medicating, of course it is. But so is putting in lemongrass oil. Some people approve of one and not the other.

It is illegal to put stuff in hives that have not been tested and approved, like oxalic acid. That doesn't mean they are bad and just because another one is approved doesn't mean its a good thing.

I would avoid such approved medications as Apistan and Checkmite. I think the use of terramycin in hives is not harmful. I would avoid putting random essential oils into hives, even though this is not technically illegal because most of them are approved for use in food.

You have no idea what the effect of these products will be on your bees or your honey. If the bees or your customers are made sick by it, you will feel awful and could get sued.