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Disaster

15K views 70 replies 19 participants last post by  Stone 
#1 ·
Well, I was somewhat worried this spring since I could see zero activity outside my five hives, today I checked the largest one I have since the weather is nice and the entire hive is dead, all my hives died, the two smallest hives seem to have starved, not unexpected since they were very late additions. I can't figure out the big hives though, they didn't even use their food stores must be more then 60lb's of honey left, seems like they died early in the winter. They are in an area that gets a lot of wind, and I didn't wrap them in anything, the wood is 7/8" thick and only one hole 7/8"d was open I closed all the top bars on the top and let them seal it up tight, could anyone shed some light on this matter for me?


Sam.
 
#5 ·
Well this hive was strong, idk about mites ect, they seemed to die early winter all of them are inside the hive, whats strange is they all seemed wet, even the dead ones on the comb, I had only a single hole 2" from the bottom on all my hives. I'm wondering if a top entrance would have prevented this...


Sam.
 
#13 ·
Well this hive was strong, idk about mites ect, they seemed to die early winter all of them are inside the hive, whats strange is they all seemed wet, even the dead ones on the comb, I had only a single hole 2" from the bottom on all my hives. I'm wondering if a top entrance would have prevented this...
Sad, but an opportunity to learn. Can your local bee inspector get samples analyzed? That would give you some hard info instead of OP's guesses.

If they really died out before winter, suspect failed queens (unlikely for 5 to fail unless all from same source), or failed supersedure, or massive varroa load, or viruses... this is why you need to get them checked.

Personally, I think top ventilation in your climate would only have accelerated their deaths. IMO insulation should be at the top, ventilation at the bottom: keep the rising warm, air in; let the cool, damp air fall out.

And IMO one hole in a big TBH is nowhere near enough ventilation.
 
#8 ·
In freezing cold weather it is easier for bees to move up then it is to move over to access honey stores. Did you have lots of bees head first in side of the cells in the cluster of the large hives? If they were then the condensation could have froze on the cover, the bees died from starvation, then the weather got warm and the condensation(frost) melted down on top of the already dead bees making them wet.
 
#10 ·
I only have three holes 1" during the season and one opened during winter ( on the long sides at one end ). Solid floor, no chimney, ventilation, etc.
Third year and no problems at all. Cold, damp winters ( weeks with -20 celzius ) and hot summers ( up to 38 celzius ). Bush design.

Bees love it. I keep colonies in frame hives also but TBH is just, well better in my case so I am getting rid of frame hives for now and going up in numbers with only TBHs and skeps.


As far as OP is concerned. Bees were probably wet because like he said they probably died early in the winter. Maybe not much food in crucial months when queen was laying winter bees...consequence ... not much bees left for winter and the old ones just died like they would anyway ?
 
#12 ·
I'm glad the design works beenovice, and condensation melting on the bees afterwords makes sense, I don't see how they could starve with something like 60lb of honey still in hive... It looks like they all died in the same spot they started the winter, idk could a week queen cause this? Zonker is right I hadn't thought of this how would the bees get wet if they are all dead, although I have seen dead hives that are moldy and soaked the living ones seem a lot dryer... I didn't see a large number of starved bees ether..
All five hives re-queened themselves half way through the year. Knowing the reason why this happened is important to me because if I get more bees and they die I'm at square one again.. At this point I'm not sure if I want to continue with this project if they will just die on me.


Sam.
 
#14 ·
I just found this:


Bees In Winter

The Principal Causes of Heavy losses.
How to Prevent Them.

A goodly number of apiarists expressed
themselves concerning the cause and
prevention of winter losses of bees in the
columns of The American Bee Journal
recently. Professor A. J. Cook laid the
losses to poor food and severe cod and
suggested as a preventive good food
and good cellar or thorough packing.
M. Makin believes that the principal
cause is dampness and want of ventilation
He says, "since I have given my
bees plenty of ventilation at the bottom
of the hive I lose scarcely any bees."


G. W. Demaree wrote: "Long, cold
winters are the causes of loss. When
the winter is open and moderate, I never
lose any colonies, but when long, hard
winters overtake the bees some colonies
Perish." His remedy consists in protecting
the bees every season as thought every
winter was severely cold.

Mrs. L. Harrison said: "The cause of
so many bees dying last winter was
the severe long continued cold weather.
In cleaning out hives where bees have
died foul air appears to be one factor.
The weather was so severe that bees
could not clean house, and the dead accumulated,
closing up the entrance.
We hear of bees coming thru in good
condition in old hives split from top to bottom.
I cleaned out a hive that had contained a very large
colony and was well supplied with honey.
The hive was a close, well painted one, with new
muslin, and the cap filled with dry maple
leaves. The entrance was so clogged
with dead bees robbers could not enter."

J. E. Pond writes: "It is difficult to
say generally what the principal reasons
for heavy winter losses are. So many
factors enter into the problem that each
case is an individual reason for winter
losses in my own locality - Massachusetts.
1 can suggest nothing that has
not been made public in textbooks and
bee journals for years. Study them carefully,
and you will get about all the light
there is on the subject."

Mr. Dadant said that the causes of loss
are long confinement and unsealed honey.
He advised keeping the bees in a well
sheltered place where they can have a
flight at every chance. He believes that
the colonies that winter best are those
that have a flight when it seems sure
death for bees to venture out.

An apiarist writing from Canada said:
"Our losses in Canada during the past
winter were light. A light honey flow,
or a honey flow which breaks off early,
I believe, usually precedes heavy winter
losses. I have great faith in the statement
that bees will winter with reasonable
certainty if they get sufficient proper
stores, have a good queen and are kept
in proper condition during winter.
The
rules of health and life are as fixed with
the bee as any other animal."


The Cedar Rapids Evening Gazette
Tuesday, November 21, 1893 Cedar Rapids, Iowa

Thanks to Historical Honeybee Articles
 
#15 ·
What rotten luck. I'm sorry for your losses. When I opened my hive, for the first time this year, I noticed a bit of condensation on the inner cover. I put about 2 lbs of dry sugar on in mid winter and they had just about a softball size piece left. I say piece, since it was hard. This year, I'll put more dry sugar on if for nothing more than to completely absorb the condensation.
 
#19 ·
Sorry about your difficulties and admire your initiative. Starting 5 hives right out of the box is ambitious.

I have 5 Langstroth hives and one top bar. I hopped the TBH would be stronger going into the winter and haven't checked on them yet. I'm hopeful but bracing.

I'll give it another go if they failed, but if I were in your shoes, I'd first take a garden hose to then to see if they leak because I doubt if wet bees will make it through the cold let alone freeze.
 
#27 ·
I say spoiled honey because it was uncapped and before it is fully dehydrated it will spoil if let sit for a while, I don't know were they found nectar that late in the season though.
Was it actually honey, or did you feed them late?

If you feed syrup beyond the time when the temps are high enough for them to reduce the water content below about 20%, it will ferment. You will also have introduced a lot of extra water into the hive.
 
#23 ·
I had a disaster too. I started last year with two hives--my first year. Both are dead. I think it was a ventilation problem. The hives were pretty full of honey, but the comb caps were a nasty grey green color--covered with mold. I have got to figure out how to vent them--it would kill me to have it happen again.

I got 3 pound packages of Italians last year. I am going for 4 pound Carniolians. I live in the PNW (Seattle) and the guy who is selling me the packages said that that breed fares better in this climate.

I made some awful mistakes last year--I got off to a bad start. I sure hope I do better this year. This mess was really discouraging.



Abha
 
#24 ·
Lol yea I know the feeling, I am planning to drill 8 holes in the floor 7/8" large along the length and screen them on the inside, this gives me the ability to cork them if its to many and should generate enough airflow I hope without making the hives drafty.
I actually have a small puddle in a few of my hives, didn't realise my craftsmanship was so airtight =D

Sam.
 
#25 ·
Well cleaned out all my hives today, one thing they all had in common was they were all soggy, so I'm going to say (untill I find out otherwise) that the main problem is lack of ventilation, It was strange bees would be clumped in small clusters looking starved right beside a big spot of honey on the same side of the same comb. Any Ontario beeks know about finding swarm lists? Unless its no different then anywhere else.


Sam.
 
#34 ·
Bees can't move sideways to get food when they are in cluster.
It's amazing how these myths get started. Do they really think that after 50+ million years of evolution, bees haven't figured out how to move sideways to get food?

The fact that TBHs work at all should be enough evidence that this is baloney, but if you examin the combs in a typical TBH, you will see that bees often make tunnels through combs - usually just under the bars - to enable them to go the short way from comb to comb, rather than going around the outside edge.
 
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