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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Fairfax, Vermont
    Posts
    106

    Question To embed or not to embed

    I currently am using frames with crimped wire foundation, along with horizontal wire for support. I run this in both my deeps and mediums.

    I was hoping folks might provide their opion and experiences on whether or not they embed the wire in new foundation, why and why not.

    I only ask, because it would seem that the wire would get embedded naturally by the bees ounce they've worked the foundation and built out comb.

    As I was putting frames together today considering my pile of 300 frames, I thinking it would save me quite a bit of time if I didn't have to embed the wire.

    Any thoughts?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,471

    Default Re: To embed or not to embed

    I prefer to electrically embed the four cross wires in deep frames. It takes less time to embed than it does to install the foundation. I built a McIver style embeder from junk in the garage. PM me for details.

    Roland

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    New Cumberland, PA
    Posts
    1,378

    Default Re: To embed or not to embed

    I only use Bobby Pins to hold the wax to the frame for both deeps and shallow supers. When I spun the honey for the shallows, everything held together and no blowouts.

    I have never used embedded wire.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,121

    Default Re: To embed or not to embed

    I would say embed. Only the two center wires are needed.

    Foundation crimp wires come off a roll. They have a curve in them. Installing the sheets without embedding allows the wires to curve and you get curved combs. Support pins only hold the edges straight. The center curves.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    276

    Default Re: To embed or not to embed

    I had that same question a couple of years ago and seem to get a consensus that most people who use wax foundation embed the wire. So that's what I do. I timed myself once to get an average time on the various steps involved in making a frame. If memory serves me right I think I averaged out 90 minutes for ten frames, or 9 mins per frame. The timed steps involved were:

    Counting and sorting out the peices (tops, bottoms, sides)
    Hammering in brass eyelets (2 per side, 4 per frame)
    building the frame ( glued and nailed)
    wiring (with homemade jig that bend sides inward to get the wire tight)
    inserting foundation (includes nailing in wedge peice)
    embedding the wire (with car battery and 2 lengths of wire)

    Of all the steps involved embedding the wire was the quickest. So the economy in time by not doing it was minimal for me. I don't know if I'm slow or fast, but that's how it worked out for me.

    Luc
    Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss you`ll be among the stars!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Dane County, WI.
    Posts
    3,721

    Default Re: To embed or not to embed

    I have always embedded the hoz-wires.

    A thought: I have not experimented with not embedding, but would the bees tend to build more drone brood cells around those wires? This would be OK. for frames used only for honey storage, but would you want extra patches of drone brood cells [mites] permanently in brood frames?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Malabar, FL
    Posts
    1,268

    Default Re: To embed or not to embed

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    I would say embed. Only the two center wires are needed..
    I agree with MP, this is the way we do it.
    A government large enough to provide everything you need is strong enough to take everything you have. T. Jefferson

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