Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 60
  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Millersville, Maryland
    Posts
    56

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by peterloringborst View Post
    How many years have you had bees, if you don't mind me asking?
    Ok, you asked...

    I've been keeping bees since the early 70's when I bought my first bees and equipment from the Sears catalog. Then Varroa came in the 80's and nothing, including Apistan, seemed to work, everything died.

    What inspired me to return to beekeeping is that I quite literally walked away from my apiary back in the 80's. I piled all the dead hives into a big mound of equipment and abandoned it all in a field on some family property. It sat there through the 90's until one day I decided to burn the pile. That's when I noticed that feral bees had moved into the rotting hive bodies and were thriving. My first thought was, maybe I was the problem because the bees seem to be doing okay by themselves, so I thought I'd give it another try.

    My thought process on the topic is that I know NOTHING about beekeeping, For the past couple years I've started to locate and read beekeeping books and publications which pre-date 1900. I've noticed we beekeepers keep reinventing the wheel. For example, there is an article in the Feb 09 issue of Bee Culture magazine about a new idea of weighing colonies to map growth. Guess what? That new idea was first posted in the Oct 1 1899 issue of Bee Culture magazine. I also ask lots of questions I think I know the answers to. The 101 area is my favorite place here on bee source. Doing so has resulted in changing how I view beekeeping. I just assume everything I know is wrong because it typically is. I've also come to believe that many of the "experts" have it wrong too.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ithaca, NY USA
    Posts
    1,473

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    I've been keeping bees since the early 70's when I bought my first bees and equipment from the Sears catalog. Then Varroa came in the 80's and nothing, including Apistan, seemed to work, everything died.
    OK, then. You and I are on the same page! It's just that yesterday I attended a talk given by Larry Connor and he said there are always people who get bees and after one year, they are the experts.

    That isn't you, and that isn't me. We have had bees for decades and we know less now than we did then

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,859

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by JPK View Post
    Did you do any testing to rule out poisoning/disease?
    These bees are in a residential area where there is no large acreage spraying. The bees all looked newly hatched and stumbled/were thrown out of the hives during cold and wet spells. The die off continues at a slower pace months later. It looks like some kind of flu virus to me, a plague.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
    Posts
    2,479

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    Od I have seen what you are seeing more than once. I associate it with some level of mite infestation, not necessarily a heavy one. There is more to it than just the effects of the mites themselves. Researchers have been telling us to treat only when mite levels reach an impact level so as to avoid overuse of materials. But Late July / early August clean up seems to be critical to overwinter success.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    omaha nebr. USA
    Posts
    494

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    I have been in this crazy business for over 30 plus years now.
    And yes I guess I am some what of an expert after all this time.
    I feel I know less this year than I did last year at this time as to the bee keeping problems we are now having.
    So I guess this makes me a expert at what I will probably never know!
    Hope Allen Dick can come up with ideas in his testing in the next few weeks.
    I saved some frames of honey from CCD dead outs.
    Left these frames out to be robbed out by the bees last spring.
    There was no flow on or very little of one.
    Bees would rob extracted comb, drip boards & what not but wanted nothing to do with frames from these dead outs.
    I must add that most of the frames left out to be robbed were new that last spring or only one year old at best.
    Made a number of phone calls in an effort to find a lab to test this suposed CCD honey.
    Seems no one is set up to do this type of work.
    We lost over 65% of the outfit 3 winters ago.
    Good thing we don't need borrow money to operate or who knows if we would still be in the bee business.
    The crazy thing my son found was that not all of the operation seem to be affected that year.
    But the following year the yards that wintered just fine the year before we hit but good as they dropped out as bad as the yards that had problems the year previous.
    Back to the CCD honey thing.
    I may have foud a lab here in town that is willing to run some tests on the honey I saved from the dead out frames.
    I have no idea of the price but the couple that own this lab grew up as farm kids & are real intrested at having a look at this problem.
    We also did a lot of talking to people as to what they do for queens & cells in the spring.
    This is another very intresting find I must say.
    One research group I spoke with over a year ago told me point blank that the only thing that was found in there testing was that bees & people were breathing the same air.
    Other than that they could prove nothing.
    I have come to the conclusion that this bee keeping problem will more that likely be solved by bee keepers themselvs hopefully.
    We as an industry have had to become extremly small group in the ag sector that must fix our problems by ourselfs or perish.
    Truthfully I am not so sure this is all such a bad thing.
    Just as many of us are I am so sick of this big goverment thing it only seems to get worse every day!
    Then again in thinking this may be just why we have chosen this profession.
    No one seems to be standing in line to take our job

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ithaca, NY USA
    Posts
    1,473

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    We as an industry have had to become extremly small group in the ag sector that must fix our problems by ourselfs or perish.
    Truthfully I am not so sure this is all such a bad thing.
    Just as many of us are I am so sick of this big goverment thing it only seems to get worse every day!
    Bravo!

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Swalwell, AB
    Posts
    579

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    > Hope Allen Dick can come up with ideas in his testing in the next few weeks.

    Just in case there is a misunderstanding, I am not personally doing any testing but mentioned that Jerry Bromenshenk is in California right now looking for smoking guns. he has been working on this for some time now and is convinced he has the answer, but is awaiting peer review. (see quote below)

    Any sampling I am involved in is in Canada, doing field work under the supervision of Dr. Medhat Nasr. Officially, there is no CCD in Canada, although high losses have been experienced in the West over the past several winters.

    Sampling has determined that the prime suspects are nosema ceranae and varroa levels well over 1-3% going into winter. A co-ordinated effort by commercial beekeepers under direction of Dr. Nasr this fall has resulted in very low levels for the first time in years going in, and we are waiting expectantly for better results next spring...

    Here is Jerry's appeal for co-operators. Call him if you have anything that can help.
    ---
    All

    I'm in a hotel in Oakdale tonight. Flew out to check reports of
    widespread bee losses in CA, escalating rental fees, possible shortages. I'm also
    taking samples - looking for two types of bee operations to inspect/sample:

    Those with unusually high losses - assuming anything is left to see/sample,
    AND just as importantly
    Those with Great bees, no history of CCD.

    Our analyses have provided leads to a very specific pathogen complex that
    we are trying to verify.

    I'll be here about a week, traveling up and down the state. I can be
    reached at my _beeresearch@aol.com_ (mailto:beeresearch@aol.com) e-mail, or my
    cell 406-544-9007.

    Thanks

    Jerry

    P.S. I need contact information - cell phone preferably - since everyone
    is involved in a major push to get bees in to the almonds, hard to reach by
    any means other than cell - which they might answer. Of course, if you
    know where they go to breakfast about mid-morning, give me the address of the
    diner.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord NH
    Posts
    2,665

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    Allen, I'm accustomed to counting mites/time (mite count/24hr period) but how does one determine a mite load of 1-3%?
    Milk Cows Not Taxpayers

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Ithaca, NY USA
    Posts
    1,473

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    Mite load can be determined by putting 250 or so bees in a jar and knocking the mites off them. 1 to 3 % would be less than 10 mites. Many of us (me) don't feel mite drop is an accurate method.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Swalwell, AB
    Posts
    579

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    I have pictures and a little bit of description at http://honeybeeworld.com/diary/2009/diary092009.htm
    Scroll down to the 22nd.

    The shaker jar can be made from two peanut butter jars and some 6-mesh screen or ordered from http://www.beemaidbeestore.com/

    Construction info is in a sidebar at http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2008/diary110108.htm

    Comparisons between controlled laboratory shakes done later and one-minute on the spot field shakes done by hand show that the field test generally underestimates the load by 10 to 20%, (i.e. 1 or 2 mites out of 10) but is plenty close for decision making on the spot.

    A shake that turns up zero to about 7 or 8 mites is of minor concern, but we occasionally see over 40 (called Too Many To Count). In such cases, immediate action is needed and the prognosis is not good.

    In Southern Alberta this fall, most samples were near-zero, with most in a yard showing zero and one or two showing a one to three.

    Three would be one percent by our reckoning.
    Last edited by Allen Dick; 02-14-2010 at 10:40 AM.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Owen, WI, USA
    Posts
    2,552

    Default Re: Cats out of the Bag

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G. Laury View Post
    Here I am. Sheri, tell me how it's all my fault I would like to hear it.
    Tom, I just got here to catch up with this thread and saw this and feel terrible if you think I was singling you (or anyone else here for that matter) out. I was not talking about you or the other few experienced beeks I know that have reported CCD. I know there are cases where one is left wondering what killed them: there weren't mites, no nosema, etc.
    Again, I was NOT referring to the many beekeepers that have the experience to know there are a myriad of other things that can kill their colonies and recognise CCD as something else.

    I was referring to some mostly very new beekeepers that I have personally talked to and some of the very new beekeepers we have heard from on Beesource. It seems now that CCD is making the headlines some of these new beekeepers think they have CCD when their colony dies.
    Many of these new beekeepers are trying to go treatment free, thus I was commenting on the fact that in this survey, if a new beekeeper trying to go treatment free says they have CCD, how can we be sure it wasn't mites or nosema. When asked about mites, no, many did not check for them, when asked about nosema, some don't have a clue what nosema even is. I have even heard reports of obvious starvation blamed on CCD.
    I apologize for the misunderstanding.

    Sheri
    Last edited by JohnK and Sheri; 02-14-2010 at 11:16 AM. Reason: not a study, it's a survey

  12. #32
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,859

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G. Laury View Post
    Od I have seen what you are seeing more than once. I associate it with some level of mite infestation, not necessarily a heavy one. There is more to it than just the effects of the mites themselves. Researchers have been telling us to treat only when mite levels reach an impact level so as to avoid overuse of materials. But Late July / early August clean up seems to be critical to overwinter success.
    "There is more to it than just the effects of the mites themselves."

    In the middle and end of July I made 16 divides, 5 frame nucs. 5 Velbert, 5 Purvis Italian, 6 Koehnen Italian. Two Koehnens were from a small cell hive. The mother hives were strong and thriving. The nucs got the brood rearing break. I don't think I spotted a mite during my efforts. They died the identical deaths and also at the 50% rate of undisturbed hives. I agree, it is not the mite themselves, but something possibly associated with them. I see DWV throughout the fall and winter and suspect the mass did off is IAPV or similar.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Knox County, Ohio
    Posts
    2,694

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    Of the people experiencing CCD or unexplained mass die-offs, are these die-offs in stationary hives, or in migratory hives? I was under the impression that migratory hives were affected by CCD moreso than stationary hives.

    The crazy thing my son found was that not all of the operation seem to be affected that year.
    But the following year the yards that wintered just fine the year before we hit but good as they dropped out as bad as the yards that had problems the year previous.


    After you extracted honey from the yards with die-offs, did you use those extracted supers to put on hives in the healthy yard the following year, which then came down with the same symptoms? Or did you try to keep the extracted supers from the CCD yards isolated from other hives?

    If you had some kind of disease, it is possible it was spread by honey supers moved from CCD hives and put on healthy hives.

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Leith ND USA
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    Hi all,
    I'm new to the forum, but have been a beekeeper for about 20 years.

    I am in one of the commercial operations based out of ND that is experiencing large losses this year. I posted another thread called Crashing bees to describe what we are seeing in our hives. So far, we are down 50%, and more seem to be dropping off daily. I know 4 other beekeepers from ND that are here in CA this spring with half of their bees dead, and crashing.
    Some of these beekeepers don't have high nosema counts. We have nosema, but no mite problem.

    It's seems like they are eating the pollen stored from last summer right about now too, and the honey. There are many fields of sunflowers and corn, and wheat (which is now being sprayed with a neo-nic fungicide by some farmers) in our area where the bees were traveling through and to.

    This coming summer, we are going to talk to farmers and see what they are planting, and just try to stay away from neo nic. crops, it just seems like to much of a coincidence! And, who can afford to take the chance?
    Tina

  15. #35

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    Tina, a reply to your other thread….
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G. Laury View Post
    Were you in the sunflowers? Many are having 100% loss out of sunflowers.
    And from this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tina 2Bees View Post
    There are many fields of sunflowers and corn, and wheat (which is now being sprayed with a neo-nic fungicide by some farmers) in our area where the bees were traveling through and to.
    Last edited by beemandan; 02-15-2010 at 08:12 AM.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  16. #36
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord NH
    Posts
    2,665

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by Tina 2Bees View Post

    I am in one of the commercial operations based out of ND that is experiencing large losses this year. I posted another thread called Crashing bees to describe what we are seeing in our hives. So far, we are down 50%, and more seem to be dropping off daily. I know 4 other beekeepers from ND that are here in CA this spring with half of their bees dead, and crashing.
    Some of these beekeepers don't have high nosema counts. We have nosema, but no mite problem.
    Tina, do you happen to have any info from the farmers that are doing the spraying what the timing of fungicide/pesticide application is?

    I know up here they are not allowed to spray any chems when a crop/flower is in bloom. As long as they do so when not in bloom the effects on bees are usually nil to minimal. If they are spraying while in bloom I would expect high impact on bees.
    Milk Cows Not Taxpayers

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Leith ND USA
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    JPK -
    Farmers are prett good about telling beekeepers about spraying the crops around home, and I don't think we were sprayed. . . but I am under the impression that with the neo-nicotinoid sunflowers the chemical is applied to the seed, and the plant becomes toxic for the life of the plant, including the pollen, nectar, and maybe even dew on young leaves. Again, I do need to do more research, and am not clear on the topic.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Auger Hole, MN
    Posts
    433

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    the weather last summer in dakotas and Mn was unusual as we had a weak flow in July but yet Sept was ok.

    many many commercial beeks predicted a crash this winter as they or others had left supers on longer then usual in fall to make up lost ground in honey production.

    we all know the affects of too late mite treatments - the bees die later in winter or come into spring and never build up.

    if you have no data - no mite rolls - no virus checks (available from bee research in Montana) you are left with dead bees and a lot of speculation.

    talk to leading bee researchers anywhere and they all concur that mites are still the number one source or indirect source (via weaken hives and viruses and other interactions) of lost hives etc.

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    omaha nebr. USA
    Posts
    494

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    Tina
    Please help me out if you can.
    Were the sunflowers the oil seed or the confectonary type.
    If you are contacting the farmers PLEASE ask them as to what ther seed source is
    ( BRAND of seed used )
    I know it is a long shot but maybe one of them have a full sack, half sack or even an empty sack with the ID tag on it.
    Please PM me if you can!

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Faulkner Manitoba, Canada
    Posts
    1,696

    Default Re: Prevalence of CCD in untreated colonies

    Quote Originally Posted by JPK View Post
    Allen, I'm accustomed to counting mites/time (mite count/24hr period) but how does one determine a mite load of 1-3%?
    http://www.capabees.com/main/files/p...athreshold.pdf

    From page 4 of the capa bee page

    IV. Converting from Sticky Board Counts to Percent Infestation

    Actual Percentage Infestation compared to Natural Drop
    0-1% 0 - drop
    3% 18 drop
    5-6% 33-43 drop

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads