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Thread: Varroa question

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Varroa question

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    And yet I have lots of beekeepers around me and have had success. As has Dennis with lots of commercial around him.
    Barry and all,

    I would never argue with a success story. My take on all this is: what if it doesn't work? I have tried for years to keep bees here in my yard, using ferals. They never made it.

    I have obtained an instrumentally mated VSH queen from my friend Tom Glenn. That's my next plan. Also, I hope to purchase some mite resistant bees from Mike J.

    So my conversation is for the folks who tried going off treatments and lost their bees. Some lost 100%. Basically sucks. How are you going to raise mite resistant bees that way? Nothing to select from!

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Varroa question

    I lost 100% from Varroa several times when on large cell. I finally gave up on that and went to small cell and natural cell and have lost none to Varroa since. I certainly can identify with the concept that you need survivors in order to breed from them. Maybe you also need an environment they can survive in.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Varroa question

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    Maybe you also need an environment they can survive in.
    Hi Michael,
    That is the basic theme of my thread "Natural Cell Beekeeping" -- the idea that with beekeeping (as with life) location can make all the difference. I think it was Dean who said that a lot of beekeeping practices simply aren't "portable".

    After I left San Diego, I found out that almost everything I learned in nearly 20 years of mediterranean style beekeeping simply did not apply to beekeeping in Upstate NY. Fortunately, I now have 20 years of living here under my belt.

    BTW, it is a much longer belt than it used to be, especially during hibernation

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Varroa question

    What makes this world interesting is different opinions, discussions and debates such as this that go on and on and on without the participants coming to a consensus agreement. It is not surprising though. FACT is created when there is a consensus of experiences or experiments that continually point to the same outcome, regardless of who is doing it. With the varroa mite, in order to gain ground on this problem, we have to put together a set of FACTS that are indisputable, if humanly possible, and work from there without going backwards and rehashing the FACTS that have already been established as FACTUAL. I need to take a break now and think.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Varroa question

    creating consensus is tough because "all beekeeping is local"
    "Wine is a constant proof that God loves us and loves to see us happy" Ben Franklin

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Varroa question

    Mike, you are correct that beekeeping practices are local, but what I was getting at is in regards to the varroa mite, we have to establish a set of FACTS concerning the mite itself, its typical mode of functioning, preferences, mating habits, ways of interacting with the honeybee colony that can be depended upon to occur repeatedly the same.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Varroa question

    Just as the honeybee reacts in the same way to stimuli, the mite has its own ways of operating that establish a pattern that we and/or the colony can use to our/its advantage against it, although it will have to be a patient process

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Varroa question

    Quote Originally Posted by peterloringborst View Post
    Just one more hive with mites completely out of control. Probably died soon after. Hardly even worth talking about. Not anything unusual there. It would be unusual if they looked good at that time of year around here.
    We're in very different places over this. Nowhere in my experience, or in literature has this been common or usual. No one has stepped up claiming to have ever seen this in their hives. This "hygienic" behavior happened in my hives as they were transitioning from chemically/drug treated bees to non-treated bees.
    Regards, Barry

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Varroa question

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    No one has stepped up claiming to have ever seen this in their hives.
    Hi Barry,
    One thing that I learned as a bee inspector, inspectors SEE things that regular beekeepers don't. I guess it's like hunting, or any other skill which improves with practice.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Varroa question

    Perhaps, but it doesn't explain the silence in print/studies.
    Regards, Barry

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Varroa question

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Perhaps, but it doesn't explain the silence in print/studies.
    Lots of studies referring to this behavior

    Response of Apis mellifera L colonies infested with Varroa jacobsoni Oud
    O. Boecking and W. Drescher
    Apidologie (1991)

    Behavioral defenses of honey bees against Varroa jacobsoni Oud.
    Otto Boecking and Marla Spivak
    Apidologie (1999)

    Uncapping of pupal cells by European bees in the United States as responses to Varroa destructor and Galleria mellonella
    Alexis J Villegas, José D Villa
    Journal Apicultural Research (2006)

    Bees with Varroa Sensitive Hygiene preferentially remove mite infested pupae aged ~ five days post capping
    Jeffrey W. Harris
    Journal Apicultural Research (2007)

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Varroa question

    Parasitism in the social bee Apis mellifera: quantifying costs and benefits of behavioral resistance to Varroa destructor mites
    Rémy Vandame
    Apidologie 33 (2002) 433-445

    > European (EHB) and Africanized (AHB) honey bees are two Apis mellifera subspecies that coexist in Mexico, the former highly compatible with Varroa destructor, the latter less compatible. Here we examine two mechanisms that could explain the low compatibility between AHB and V. destructor in Mexico: (1) grooming behavior appeared significantly more intensive in AHB colonies, but was nevertheless ineffective; (2) EHB removed 8.03% of the infested brood, while AHB removed 32.46%, especially between 5 and 7 days post-capping.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Varroa question

    Sequential hygienic behavior in Carniolan honey bees (Apis mellifera carnica)
    K.P. Gramacho and L.S. Gonçalves
    Genet. Mol. Res. 8 (2): 655-663 (2009)

    > Workers start hygienic behavior by puncturing the capped brood cell, making small holes in it, followed by uncapping of the brood cell and removal of the brood. However, the brood can be partially or totally removed. Rarely, punctured cell was followed by capped cell.

    > We found that there are normally three main steps involved in hygienic behavior of honey bees after they identify the damaged brood inside the cell; these are puncturing of the capping, uncapping of the brood cell and removal of the brood. We have observed that normally the workers remove the injured pupae by eating them (cannibalism) instead of simply removing the pupa.

    > Brood partially removed occurred more frequently after punctured capping and less frequently after uncapped cell; we suppose that brood partially removed is a sign of cannibalism. This brood condition was observed more frequently in the non-hygienic colony.

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Varroa question

    Quote Originally Posted by peterloringborst View Post
    No Swarm Cluster Frames. Anybody who has any, I'd love to have one for my collection!
    Remind me before SABA.
    Mike

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