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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    9,436

    Default Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    As the title says,bees are suppose to be following the angle of the sun and not temperature. So what does the temperature have to do with the angle of the sun? Yes it has been a warm / mild winter but the angle of the sun and the solstice has not changes so why are bees acting a head of schedule? It has got to be temperature as in degree day not the angle of the sun that drives their calendar.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    roswell, georgia, USA
    Posts
    720

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    I don't know about the "suppose to" part re solstice, angles, degrees, but it seems to me that nature adapts each season according to possibly a lot more factors than we consider. We are in for a hard freeze tonite (covered some folage) after generally weeks of spring-like temps that the bees have been responding to accordingly - with 70 degrees expected by the end of the week - may nip a few buds and cause a night of clustering by the girls, but both will be back at it come mid-day tomarrow, none the affected.

    Other than some out-of-the-norm situations, moving ahead with normal preps should get us thru, or we'll learn otherwise - and guess wrong again.

    I expect that folks need to be watching for swarms & prep., being watchfull of their feeding (back-fill or starve) and, if mild winter, an early start to varroah & SHB).

    I freak out when they are small and die, I freak out when they are too big and active - I'm paranoid, so forget everything I said.
    EAS Georgia Certified. "Tradition - Even if you have done it the same way for years doesn't mean that it is not stupid."

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Alachua County, FL, USA
    Posts
    6,910

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    You are confusing two solar angles.
    Solar declination, and the associated seasons and degree-days are not known to be recognized by bees.
    Right ascension or hour-angle is the solar navigation bees use.
    americasbeekeeper.com
    beekeeper@americasbeekeeper.com

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Mammoth Cave, KY
    Posts
    149

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    Example for my area : Late Feb early March usually loads of maple pollen, this season above average temps allowed bees to add maple nectar and lots of it. Ahead of normal for March 5th definitely ! Some Queens are laying in 3 boxes already.
    Poppy's Bees, Queens, and Honey
    Mammoth Cave, KY

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Peace River, AB Canada
    Posts
    456

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    Ace just to confuse you even more colonies wintered indoors in total darkness and kept at a constant temperature follow a cycle very close to outdoor wintered colonies.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Tulsa OK. USA
    Posts
    846

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    Seems to me the solar angle is used in navigation and temp is used for foraging. Jim
    Stop and smell the flowers, 50,000 ladies can't be wrong
    Bsweetapiary@aol.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    9,436

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericasBeekeeper View Post
    You are confusing two solar angles.
    Really? I have seen many a chart plotted with the solstice as a marker.

    Ace just to confuse you even more colonies wintered indoors in total darkness and kept at a constant temperature follow a cycle very close to outdoor wintered colonies.
    I am not too sure about this either. What is total darkness? Just the visible light spectrum. Many things in nature "see" much more than we do. There is a lot of sun light that gets through that isn't visible.
    For instance, a few days ago we had snow and yesterday was very overcast with a bitter cold wind. The snow on the parking lot and the metal buildings was melting at a rapid rate. When that happens we have water flows down the gutters and isles. Any place where there was shade from a building or a solid obstacle the snow stayed powdery. I have noticed this phenomena many times. I am not sure bees cannot see the sun inside a building.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Wash Co., Ohio
    Posts
    117

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    I have seen many a chart plotted with the solstice as a marker.
    I think, as with many navigational insects, only the azimuth of the sun matters, not its elevation above the horizon.

    I am not sure bees cannot see the sun inside a building.
    Since they have the ability to see polarization of light, they wouldnt need to see the sun, only a bit of light from anywhere. Now, total darkness, I dont know about - interesting to learn more about it. But like you said many thing in nature can 'see' more than we can, and (though I know they dont see in x-ray), maybe other forms of the electromagnetic spectrum penatrate our "total darkness" confine and allow them to act accordingly.
    But I dont know - I just find the **** things fascinating!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Waukesha, WI
    Posts
    178

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    Unless bees are great at seeing radio waves, total darkness on the visible light spectrum is going to translate to total darkness on the electromagnetic spectrum. The Sun gives off a variety of light but by and large all that gets through our atmosphere is visible light (maybe some stray UV) and some radio waves. The UV waves will get blocked out of a building the same as visible light.

    That only leaves the radio waves. The amount of radio waves emitted by the Sun is small compared with visible light and highly unlikely to be "visible" over all our radio communications without an aimable antenna (which is going to be larger than a bees body).

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I am not too sure about this either. What is total darkness? Just the visible light spectrum. Many things in nature "see" much more than we do. There is a lot of sun light that gets through that isn't visible.
    For instance, a few days ago we had snow and yesterday was very overcast with a bitter cold wind. The snow on the parking lot and the metal buildings was melting at a rapid rate. When that happens we have water flows down the gutters and isles. Any place where there was shade from a building or a solid obstacle the snow stayed powdery. I have noticed this phenomena many times. I am not sure bees cannot see the sun inside a building.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Calvert, Md,USA
    Posts
    1,701

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    Ladies and Gentlemen. Tonights bout will be between Sunny Man Solstis and Angle Boy Rodriguez. Rules are, you cannot mention Evolution. Refereeing this bout,,,,,,,Sponge Bob!!!
    Sorry,,,,couldn't resist

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    9,436

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    Quote Originally Posted by tsk View Post
    Unless bees are great at seeing radio waves, total darkness on the visible light spectrum is going to translate to total darkness on the electromagnetic spectrum.
    If memory serves me bees see infrared, passes through solid objects and is emitted by the sun. Humans can't see infrared but they can sense it. If you become blind your ability to sense infrared will improve.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,436

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    deleted, double post.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Waukesha, WI
    Posts
    178

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    Infrared doesn't pass through solid objects anymore than red light passes through solid objects. Try grabbing a remote control, a digital camera (camera phone should work too), and a book. Push a button n the remote and look at the LCD screen of the camera. You should see the IR sensor of the remote blinking. Now do the same while putting a book between the remote and the camera. You aren't going to see that IR sensor. You also know how easily an IR remote is blocked from turning on your TV. IR doesn't go through solid objects.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Wash Co., Ohio
    Posts
    117

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    .....
    Last edited by Gibbus; 03-06-2012 at 02:30 PM. Reason: deleting

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Denison, Texas
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    510

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    Ok, here we go Ace. I'm gonna try to put something else into this.
    There's a gravity shift after the solstice? Just like the full moon can effect animals behavior, can the gravity shift from
    one hemisphere to the next be sensed? Not SEEING the inclination of light but, of gravity.
    Is that why bees trapped in a darkened storage barn still begin the same progress toward spring as the ones
    outside that have light shining in the entrances? Discuss.LOL
    Last edited by Steven Ogborn; 03-06-2012 at 03:03 PM. Reason: added can

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Waukesha, WI
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    178

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    What causes the gravity shift at the Solstice? This sounds related to the myth of egg balancing in Spring.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Alachua County, FL, USA
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    6,910

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    Bees do not see infra-red IR or red as we do. Bees see UV and a purple we cannot see directly.
    http://beelore.com/2011/06/25/bees-dont-see-red/
    http://web.ncsu.edu/abstract/science/wms-what-bees-see/
    americasbeekeeper.com
    beekeeper@americasbeekeeper.com

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,010

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    I thought there was something phishy about what Ace thought he remembered. My recollection is that bees see RED as BLACK.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Alachua County, FL, USA
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    6,910

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    "If memory serves me bees see infrared"
    They say the memory is the second thing to go! There may be a pill for the first, but see your doctor if it last more than four hours.
    americasbeekeeper.com
    beekeeper@americasbeekeeper.com

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Denison, Texas
    Posts
    510

    Default Re: Wait a minute, what are you guys feeding me.

    No tsk, that's not what I meant. I'm thinking the bees can feel the change of gravity direction at the solstice.
    That's why it will coincide with the shift in light at the solstice. We might be thinking that the bees are seeing
    a change in the direction of light. They could be feeling a change in the direction of gravity. Yeah, it's kind of
    the same thing as why balancing eggs at the exact time of the solstice works. The bees feel it, and respond
    to the gravity change.

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