Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: MegaBee

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hughson, CA
    Posts
    153

    Default MegaBee

    The following is the link for the patent application for MegaBee. It makes pretty interesting reading. One of the most surprising aspects of the formula is the use of corn gluten. Is corn gluten high in B complex?

    http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090162482

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,157

    Default Re: MegaBee

    Come on Ernie, where are you at.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Re: MegaBee

    Hi Kieth,
    I am right here.
    Taking a brake from mowing the lawn.

    Ernie
    Last edited by BEES4U; 10-17-2009 at 12:30 PM. Reason: spelling
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Default Re: MegaBee

    Here is one source on a corn gluten meal.
    Corn gluten meal is a by-product from the manufacture of corn starch and corn syrup. It is very high in protein supplement in feeds for livestock, poultry and pets. It contains slightly more TDN than corn. The protein in corn gluten is degraded relatively slowly in the rumen.
    A variety of corn gluten meal with 41 percent protein is available in some areas. It is higher in crude fiber (5 percent) and lower in TDN (78 percent) than the variety with 60 percent protein.

    Corn gluten meal usually is not included in mixtures at levels greater than 15 percent or fed at a rate greater than 15 percent or fed at a rate greater than 5 pounds (2 kg) per cow per day due to poor palatability above these levels.

    Typical Analysis Solvent
    Dry Matter 90.0%
    Crude Protein 60.0%
    Fat 2.5%
    Crude Fiber 2.0%
    Neutral Detergent Fiber 12.6%
    Acid Detergent Fiber 6.2%
    Calcium 4.5%
    Phosphorus 0.5%
    Total Digestable Nutrients 83.0%
    Net energy - Lactation 84.1 Mcal/100 lbs.


    Caution: Any recommendations given here should be considered as general only and may not apply in your specific situation. All final recommendations should be made by a qualified person familiar with your particular circumstances.
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hughson, CA
    Posts
    153

    Default Re: MegaBee

    Ernie thanks for info. The question we need to find the answer to is what is the amino acid profile of corn gluten? Also, my guess is that any source of corn gluten would need to be milled into smaller particle size for bees.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Re: MegaBee

    BINGO!
    http://www.freshpatents.com/-dt20090...0090162482.php

    Was that fast?
    Ernie
    SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION
    The invention relates in general to nutritional compositions and formulations that provide honey bees with a fully nutritious, easily digestible, complex mixture of nutrients in amounts and proportions effective to support growth and development of honey bees, sustain brood rearing, and maintain hive vigor.
    More specifically, the invention relates to nutritional compositions and formulations that utilize corn gluten and at least one other source of protein and lipid content.

    The inventors have discovered that providing multiple sources of protein and lipids, including corn gluten, leads to improved honeybee health and longevity. The combination of proteins, lipids, and carbohydrates benefits the colony by providing the food source necessary to develop colony strength and as well as to maintain a high and healthy brood production. The high quality and excellent palatability of the compositions of the invention are especially suitable for fall, winter or early spring feeding. In addition, the compositions of the invention offer commercial operations, queen breeders and hobbyist beekeepers an excellent tool to boost colony strength, population, and brood production for a more effective pollination season and potentially higher honey yields.

    In one embodiment, the artificial diet formulation includes about 20-80% protein derived from at least two sources including corn gluten, about 1-7% lipid derived from at least two sources including corn gluten, and about 10-90% carbohydrate. The inventors have found that particles in the formulation preferably are less than 35 microns in diameter. The relatively small diameter of the particles (compared to other artificial bee diets) is thought by the inventors to be important in the improvement of the absorption and the conversion to usable food reserves during the digestive process.

    In another embodiment of the invention, the diet further includes protein derived from one or more of soy concentrate, barley flour, yeast, or corn distillers dried grains. Similarly, the lipids of the diet may be derived from one or more of soy concentrate, barley flour, yeast, or corn distillers dried grains.

    In some embodiments, the diet preferably is a liquid diet that includes high-fructose corn syrup as the carbohydrate source. The diet also may be formulated in dry form and mixed with a sugar syrup prior to use to form a liquid. Alternatively, a patty or a dry formulation or may be formed by using less syrup or a solid carbohydrate source and bringing the product to a dough like or powdery consistency that is placed in the colony for the bees to eat.

    Preferably, formulations of the invention further include about 3-6% ash, about 2-5% citric acid, and about 1-2% antifungal agent in order to have suitable acidity and stability. Also preferably, formulations of the diet is substantially free of egg-derived protein. The inventors have found that previous bee diet compositions containing egg can be difficult for the bees to digest, perhaps due to the high lipid content of eggs. Moreover, because of the high fat levels, the inventors have found that egg-containing product is more prone to deteriorate and oxidize over time and consequently lose its nutritional value.

    In other embodiments of the invention, the diet is formulated to include about 40-60% protein derived from at least two sources including corn gluten, about 1-5% lipid derived from at least two sources including corn gluten, and about 40-60% total carbohydrates, of which typically 0.4% are digestible carbohydrates, about 3-6% ash, and about 2-5% citric acid, with at least a majority of the particles in the formulation being 35 microns in diameter or less.

    In still other embodiments of the invention, the diet is formulated to include about 40-60% protein derived from at least three sources including corn gluten, soy concentrate, and barley flour, about 2-4% lipid derived from at least two sources including corn gluten, about 40-60% carbohydrate, of which typically 0.4% are digestible carbohydrates, about 3-6% ash, and about 2-5% citric acid, with a majority of the particles in the formulation being less than 35 microns in diameter.

    The invention also comprises methods of making and using the artificial diets and diet formulations. The diets of the invention provide a complex mixture which includes proteins, lipids, carbohydrates, minerals, and other nutrients to provide all the dietary requirements for bees to rear multiple generations of young bees when there is an absence of natural pollen and nectar. The formulations are pH balanced to mimic the pH of natural pollen and promote a healthy gut environment in the bees. Optionally, anti-microbial agents may be included to prevent pre-mature deterioration of the diet.

    The combination of ingredients in the diet formulations assure that a smooth, evenly mixed, substantially homogeneous, non-clumping mixture is obtained when the dry formulation is mixed with a liquid and that the formulation is palatable to bees and provides bees nutrients to raise multiple generations of young bees.

    Additional features and advantages of the invention will be forthcoming from the following detailed description of certain specific embodiments when read in conjunction with the accompanying drawings.
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Re: MegaBee

    Matt,
    Please take a look at table 3 ( amino acide profiles)

    http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/110/11/2254.pdf

    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,157

    Cool Re: MegaBee

    [QUOTE=BEES4U;471523]The inventors have discovered that providing multiple sources of protein and lipids, leads to improved honeybee health and longevity.QUOTE]

    Well, imagine that... Dang it... why didn't I think of that.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hughson, CA
    Posts
    153

    Default Re: MegaBee

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    Matt,
    Please take a look at table 3 ( amino acide profiles)

    http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/reprint/110/11/2254.pdf

    Ernie
    If we are comparing apples to apples with the recommended amino acid profile in the Fat Bee Skinny Bees report from Australia, corn gluten looks pretty darn good! Thanks Ernie.

  10. #10

    Default Re: MegaBee

    So if you are using brewers yeast and extruded soybean meal now how much corn gluten do you add? Or is it a complete replacement for both, it reads like the more sources the better the profile?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,157

    Default Re: MegaBee

    [QUOTE=Matt Beekman;471599]If apples to apples with the recommended amino acid profile in the Fat Bee Skinny Bees report from Australia, QUOTE]

    Matt, are we sure that this is the bench mark to strive for?

    Also, the fat of mega-Bee is down well below 2%. ALL of the test's from the lab show much higher in the pollen that I have collected from the hives for test's. There is a reason at this time that I have tryed to maintain 7-8% fat levels.

    All I'm am saying is, ARE WE FOLLOWING THE RIGHT TRAIN, BUT ON THE WRONG SET OF TRACKS ??
    Last edited by Keith Jarrett; 10-18-2009 at 08:36 AM. Reason: adding
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Re: MegaBee

    So if you are using brewers yeast and extruded soybean meal now how much corn gluten do you add?

    The amount of corn gluten, powdered/flour, will depend on your ratio of the soy flour to brewers yeast and their individual crude protein %.
    There are some good reasons that we have been using the above feed stuffs over the past years.
    You will need to decide what your wet weight, as is, % crude protein, will be for your operation.
    You should have your ration lab tested before and after the addition of corn gluten so you will know the exact contents of your formula.We should remember that their may be a protein toxicity at higher %.
    And, what is the cost of the corn gluten.
    We will be competing with it's other uses.
    I am happy with my own formula, formulas, and the bees are too.
    I checked some hives yesterday, 17 October 09, and there were a lot of happy baby bees doing their orientation flights.
    And, the hives are averaging 3-4 frames of brood of which most is sealed.
    Hopefully, this information was useful.
    Regards,
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,157

    Default Re: MegaBee

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    the hives are averaging 3-4 frames of brood of which most is sealed.
    3-4 frames.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Default Re: MegaBee

    late summer divides.
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hughson, CA
    Posts
    153

    Default Re: MegaBee

    [QUOTE=Keith Jarrett;471632]
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Beekman View Post
    If apples to apples with the recommended amino acid profile in the Fat Bee Skinny Bees report from Australia, QUOTE]

    Matt, are we sure that this is the bench mark to strive for?

    Also, the fat of mega-Bee is down well below 2%. ALL of the test's from the lab show much higher in the pollen that I have collected from the hives for test's. There is a reason at this time that I have tryed to maintain 7-8% fat levels.

    All I'm am saying is, ARE WE FOLLOWING THE RIGHT TRAIN, BUT ON THE WRONG SET OF TRACKS ??
    If anyone tells you they have bee nutrition all figured out; they are either stupid or not paying attention. The source of the amino acid profile info. is from I think 1954!! In terms of adding more fat to the megabee diet in patty form, that is probably a good idea.

    You are surprisingly quiet about the corn gluten. Maybe we discovered one of your secret ingredients. Any experience with corn gluten?

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
    Posts
    2,479

    Default Re: MegaBee

    Matt don't forget the smiley face when you say that!

    Keiths sub is being tested by a select group of long time commercial beekeepers. I look forward to sharing the results. One of them will be comparing Mega bee based patties.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,157

    Default Re: MegaBee

    [QUOTE=Matt Beekman;471644]
    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Jarrett View Post

    If anyone tells you they have bee nutrition all figured out; they are either stupid or not paying attention.
    Well said. Matt

    P.S. Tom, Kevin Ward ( Hill/Ward apiaries) of Willows did a test in June 09 with about seven different subs including Mega-Bee & Nutra-Bee.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    SOUTH TEXAS
    Posts
    49

    Default Re: MegaBee

    Hey Tom were doing the same testing with Keiths Pollen sub here in Texas.. There is 3 or 4 large beekeepers in on the testing one of them is running over 20000 hives.. I will keep you updated on the Texas results.. Kenny

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Re: MegaBee

    I added my $0.02 worth
    9. The diet of claim 1, wherein said diet is substantially free of egg-derived protein. (This should prove to be interesting)

    10. A diet formulation suitable for rearing bees, comprising:about 40-60% protein derived from at least two sources including corn gluten, about 1-5% lipid derived from at least two sources including corn gluten, and about 40-60% carbohydrate, about 3-6% ash, and about 2-5% citric acid.
    ( now I wonder what the other source might be?)

    11. The diet of claim 10, wherein particles in the formulation are a mean size of 35 microns in diameter or less. ( Can you actually drop a patent on particle size?)

    12. The diet of claim 10, wherein said protein derived from at least two sources further includes one or more of soy concentrate, barley flour, yeast, or corn distillers dried grains. ( barley flour must be cheaper than Pollard which is a wheat source.)

    Regards,
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Knox County, Ohio
    Posts
    2,694

    Default Re: MegaBee

    ( Can you actually drop a patent on particle size?)

    Ask Monsanto. They patented mixes of chemicals with water. I'm serious - they would tell you to mix so much X chemical with Y chemical in water. And X and Y chems were already patented.

    Roundup is the golden child, and since patents don't last forever, they patented mixing Roundup with water to make a spray solution as a way to extend the patent. While Roundup was previously patented, the mixture of Roundup and water was patented. (Even though that is how it had always been mixed.)

    If they can patent a chemical concentrate, and then turn around years later and patent the solution resulting from mixing that chemical concentrate with water - I see no reason why they couldn't patent particle size of feed.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads