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  1. #41
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    Sep 2008
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    Corryton, Tennessee, USA
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    581

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    Quote Originally Posted by EastSideBuzz View Post
    I am sensing allot of flowers and jewelry.
    I got the sense that kinda stuff couldn't be afforded, especially with losses like those.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    lake geneva wi
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    459

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    Quote Originally Posted by pcelar View Post
    I was laughing at your comment.
    That was a rhetorical question. CCD not being a laughing matter. Bee health here is more important than almond eating in my estimation.

  3. #43
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    Sep 2008
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    Corryton, Tennessee, USA
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    581

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    Quote Originally Posted by JBG View Post
    Bee health here is more important than almond eating in my estimation.
    Why can't we have both bee health and almonds?

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Owen, WI, USA
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    2,561

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    I think blaming CCD on almond orchards is a little like blaming car breakdowns on major highways. Most auto malfunctions happen on highways because the cars just happen to be there: most of the commercial bees happen to go to California. As mentioned before, commercials NOT going to California have reported similar collapses. The reason why you primarily hear about it from commercials (who just happen to go to California) is that it is their livelihood and exponentially more colonies die. When a hobbyist has a high percent crash they blame themselves or starvation or whatever. It is not as financially important to them. When you think about it, losing 5 of 10 colonies or similar is a pretty high loss but I would guess not uncommon. Or 1 out of 1, that is 100%!! But while some might suspect CCD (that is the in vogue bee boogieman right now) they are more likely to blame mites or starvation or any of the other usual suspects.
    Like any other communicable disease, higher population masses, especially those being pushed hard for productivity are more susceptible. Smaller isolated non mobile colonies would have an edge, other things equal.
    Sheri

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
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    2,271

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    There was a lot of of joking about CCD for awhile.(not the losses, just the name) PPB and other such comments.
    Truth is,there are major losses of bees going on in many outfits(I know of plenty that never made the news). I started seeing this several years back in semi loads of bees coming into holding yards from out of state hives in January. There has been a huge amount of guessing on the cause. I bounce back and forth on the reasons. But it is becoming apparent that there are new pathogens at work, spreading from outfit to outfit. And of course Sherri is right-the almonds just happens to be where all the hives are mingled.
    I have seen that it is not taking as many varroa mites to cause viral problems as it used to. Nosema C is everywhere now and add in drought and maybe some Tracheal mites and sooner or later the 'perfect storm ' arrives in YOUR bees.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    24,494

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    Quote Originally Posted by EastSideBuzz View Post
    I am sensing allot of flowers and jewelry.
    W/ what money?
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  7. #47
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnK and Sheri View Post
    When a hobbyist has a high percent crash they blame themselves ...
    Sheri
    I am anything but a hobbyist, but I always blame myself first and then look for reasons outside of my control. Like this summers crop failure. The bees are in good shape and we still didn't make much of a crop of honey. So, I thought that maybe the mite loads were too high. Then I started hearing about the dismal crop all over NY. So, even though mite counts may be somewhat high, I'm not alone in not having a good crop.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  8. #48
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    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
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    2,271

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    "always blame myself first"
    Me too. And usually with good reason. Coulda/shoulda done something different. Thats how we learn.My dad called it the school of hard knocks.But there are definitely things beyond our control.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    lake geneva wi
    Posts
    459

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    What is the commercial opinion on this group and what they are doing with CCD.
    http://www.beeologics.com/

    My opinion is very high of Israeli agriculture and biotech from everything I've seen. They really know how to grow stuff in a harsh enviornment. I use a type of greenhouse covering from an Israeli group that is remarkable in how it filters light, enhancing plant growth....
    http://www.polygal-northamerica.com/

    Israel has great greenhouse tech in general. Really innovative....
    http://www.bio-bee.com/site/

  10. #50
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Fresno California USA
    Posts
    2,496

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    What Mike and Mark are talking about is so very true for most of us...the emotional toll that heavy losses take. Everyone else is doing better, why didn't I do that too, It's all my fault, and so on. Something has changed, it's much much more difficult to keep your bees healthy these years than it used to be. Picking up truckloads of deadouts is a lot of hard work and very depressing. Think how good you feel when they are all boiling over, well there is another side to that coin. Then you have to spend money you don't really have, just to get back to an economic unit. How to keep that enthusiasm? When it all becomes a burden you're just a step away from quitting all together.

  11. #51
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    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lancaster, Ky. / Frostproof Fl.
    Posts
    996

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    very well said Sheri

  12. #52
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    Apr 2005
    Location
    Worthington, Pennsylvania USA
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    1,848

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    I watched the last beekeeper with an open mind. I am not ashamed to admit that a tear or two slid down my cheek. I feel sorry for those that lose so much just trying to make a living.
    Keeping my fingers crossed that the solution and or answers bring help to those who must haul their bees for a living. We are all in this together whether we like it or not.
    "Younz" have a great day, I will.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Central San Joaquin Valley, California
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    497

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    I have not seen the film, but talked to a beek today that said he knew two of the three beeks followed in the film. He said one is bankrupt and out of business now, and the second one he knew is just a shiver away from bankruptcy. The third he did not know.
    What I do believe is that commercial beekeepers are some of the hardest working businessmen and women that exist in the country. Especially, if you take into consideration the amount of possible return for the work, time, investment, and risk that must be put into it. My small hobby/sideline operation won't bankrupt me if it fails completely. Commercial operators with no other businesses or income is another matter.
    My hat is off to each and every one of you!
    Laurence
    His Hive Honey Farm - Do all for His glory!

  14. #54
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    Sep 2008
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    Corryton, Tennessee, USA
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    581

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurence Hope View Post
    I have not seen the film, but talked to a beek today that said he knew two of the three beeks followed in the film. He said one is bankrupt and out of business now, and the second one he knew is just a shiver away from bankruptcy. The third he did not know.
    Well you don't have to know them to know that because that was all in the documentary itself.

  15. #55
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    Jul 2009
    Location
    lake geneva wi
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    459

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnK and Sheri View Post
    I think blaming CCD on almond orchards is a little like blaming car breakdowns on major highways. Most auto malfunctions happen on highways because the cars just happen to be there: most of the commercial bees happen to go to California. i
    Hello there JK and Sheri. I think a better false analogy would be thinking in terms of AIDS. Like blaming AIDS on going to gay bathhouses or discos. True they were significantly correlated, probably still are. Of course before research isolated the virus and transmission pathways there were all kinds of speculations. However the correlation factors in AIDS at least are the behaviors when it comes to bath houses and discos. The true analogy for CCD would be similar in that what is going on in the high density areas are certainly significant in terms of disease transmission. Not like cars on the hiway malfunctioning which is only an issue of scale. Car malfunctions are not transmissible. Not to be confused with tranny problems.

  16. #56
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    Aug 2003
    Location
    Lancaster, Ky. / Frostproof Fl.
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    996

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    JBG A very good point, however almond pollination(massing of bees togather) is not the cause, I believe the cause is a weakoned immune system, then with bees in a smal area it does allow disease transmission. That said, I think the only big problem would be afb if we didnt have the comprised immune sytem along with NO imported bees. The big question is what is causing the immune system to crash. Once it does then nutrition (drought. monsoon), mites, viruses are all magnified. So it seems we need to fix the immune system. Anyone researched how neonictinoids kill? Do they not weaken the immune system? Down the road when everything comes to light I believe they will make DDT seem like a mole hill and nictinoids a mountain!

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Owen, WI, USA
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    2,561

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    Quote Originally Posted by JBG View Post
    The true analogy for CCD would be similar in that what is going on in the high density areas are certainly significant in terms of disease transmission. Not like cars on the hiway malfunctioning which is only an issue of scale.
    While I think the high density is of course a factor in transmission I think scale is also at issue, that is my point. Hobbyists and sideliners fall through the statistical cracks. It is just plain easier to count the cases where there are large populations of bees, whether they be non-migratory honey producing operations, holding yards in FL or in CA almond yards. The fact is, non-migratory honey producers of size are a declining species, hence the over weighting of migratory bees in the statistics.

    Of course, realistically, all our problems have migration at the root: migration of Varroa, migration of Nosema, migration of IAPV....
    Unfortunately water under the bridge.
    Sheri

  18. #58
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    Jul 2009
    Location
    lake geneva wi
    Posts
    459

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    Yes I agree about the scale issues for sure and the fine point about the overweighting is a good one to consider. I forget the kind of sampling that you have to do but I think you have to be up on Bio-stats and epidemiologic
    methods so its not easy. I do see it as more an AIDS like thing where mutiple
    immunity factors have been impaired but this is only speculation and we are now way beyond my brain limit on this thread.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Owen, WI, USA
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    2,561

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    Quote Originally Posted by JBG View Post
    we are now way beyond my brain limit on this thread.
    LOL, don't feel bad, the best scientists in the country are working on this and haven't figured it out. We are all just speculating here.
    Sheri

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    24,494

    Default Re: The Last Beekeeper

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G. Laury View Post
    When it all becomes a burden you're just a step away from quitting all together.
    But next year will be better, right? That's what I always hope for, even in good years.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

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