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The Last Beekeeper

28K views 118 replies 35 participants last post by  Happy Honey Farm 
#1 ·
Watching the Last Beekeeper on Planet Green, they are showing commercial bee keepers traveling toCalifornia for Almonds and some of these people are losing 100's of hives for unexplained reasons in the span of two months. They interviewed one lady who lost 75% of bee's!
Scarey!!!

I wish all your commercial guys and gals the very best of luck!
 
#9 ·
WAKE UP! Since the introduction of the honeybee to this country they have been transported. Since our every expanding population has been growing so does the need for food and pollination. Beekeepers have been trucking hives for decades with minor losses until recently(except for varroa) there has been mass die offs of the honeybee.
 
#4 ·
And what will you say to the almond grower who doesn't have bees to pollinate his almonds? Tough luck go into another business? California doesn't have enough bees to pollinate their corps that is why bees are taken to Cali. Are beeks paid to bring them there...sure they are. What about bees taken to blueberry, cranberry, squash, and many, many more crops for pollination? What would happen to our food crops if commercial beeks didn't move their bees to pollinate?

I haven't seen the movie but most of the commercial guys I know don't lose many bees shipping them to California. As a matter of fact it keeps our winter losses down and we can split as soon as they arrive from California in the Spring. I don't buy the bees dying for "unexplained" reasons. Something killed them and I bet it was something simple like starvation, pesticide hit or moving the bees when it was cold and wet.
 
#5 ·
Alpha6 I have to agree with you that these sudden deaths of entire colonies can and eventually will be linked to the increased use of pesticides. The bee's are the unfortunate victims of the collateral damage that pesticides cause. I think also the veroa mites are also major contributors to the problem, weakening colonies and spreading disease from colony to colony. I have only had bee's for a year but knock on wood thus far they are pest free, there are no other hived bee's that I know of anywhere in a 5 mile radius so I only have to worry about my bee's getting infected from the few wild hives that may or may not be in the area.
 
#7 ·
I do not believe in CCD. I think it is a catch all for known reasons that bees are dying. There is a reason that nio nicotodes are banned in several countries in Europe and are freely used here in the US. Chemical companies have have a multi billion dollar business in these types of applications and spend hundreds of millions on lobbiest each year. It's simple math. So don't boycote almonds...vote in legislators that are going to do what is best for our nation and not what is best in their own interest. Additionally, there are other contributing factors to hives dying out. Certainly, mites, stress, etc can all contribute to the weakening of a hive. But a good beek will recognize symptoms and treat and care for his hives. Let us not forget bees are like any other creature. You have to know what is in your care and actually care for it. It's fairly simple.
 
#16 ·
A catch all for known reasons? Then why doesn't Dennis van Engelsdorp say so? He's a pretty smart guy and has spent lots of hours researching CCD. So, if anyone knows what the problem is or isn't I'd listen to him. And Medhat Nasr from Manitoba. He says that it's due to varroa from the outside and nosema from the inside which allows the viruses entry to the bees bodies.

And what the heck did Sunderberg mean when he told the guy that maybe he liked his bees too much? Did he mean that he should maybe do something else, some other kind of work? Or that he shouldn't treat them so much? Or what?
 
#8 ·
Well I talked with some bee keepers in West Bend this spring, they had lost 60 of 150 hives due to CCD, I could be wrong but I don't think there are any almond trees in West Bend. So therefore I don't think that the CCD can be pointed at any one crop being pollinated. What I meant in my last post is that the use of pesticides has increased greatly in all aspects of farming. The more pesticide they spray the more resistant the pests become, so the pesticides get more potent. I think it could be compared to DDT and Bald eagles dieing off in the 60's-70's. The eagles were collateral damage to killing insects.
Just my opinion....
 
#12 ·
JBG I agree with concetratating a huge percentage of the bees into one small area as a problem, and is a great way to spread disease quickly and efficently nationwide. Perhaps someday the hives will have to stay in California and will not be allowed to be transported across state lines. Similar to the Emerald Ash borer problem we are having here in midwest, and not being able to move wood from one county to another. May not solve the problem but could slow the spread of disease none the less.
 
#13 ·
Also a good way to make sure AHBs get moved all over the US. I'm sure the
Almond growers would not really mind AHBs doing the job if that is what it takes.
I have a good course for them in Brazil if they want to learn about how to work
AHBs commercially.
 
#14 ·
I don't care what size of beek you are!
But untill you have gone thru the losses that were shown in the movie you have no idea what it is like to go into a holding or over wintering yard, lift the lid & have them boiling over with bees & a month later having nothing but empty boxes.
I know of a good many beeks that lost hives & had no connection with any of the migritory guys for a hundred miles or so.
 
#17 ·
But untill you have gone thru the losses that were shown in the movie you have no idea what it is like to go into a holding or over wintering yard, lift the lid & have them boiling over with bees & a month later having nothing but empty boxes.
In spring of 2006 I had 732 colonies. By the fall of 06 I had 400 some. By March of 2007 I was down to 100 colonies. I blamed poor queens, drone layers, nontreatment and ineffective mite treatment. Then I started hearing about CCD. I still have no idea whether CCD is to blame or not. Counting almost 100 five frame nucs, I'm up to about 560 or so colonies. Now if I can keep most of them alive this winter I'll have a chance to get back to around 800. Wish me luck.
 
#20 ·
Mark,I had 1016 pretty good looking hives in the summer of 2008. Did a lot of Fall feeding because of the drought,both syrup and pollen sub. By Jan 09 I only had 532 rentable hives for almonds.Lots of feed in the hives with a tiny cluster and queen. And a mountain of deadouts stacked up. CCD? PPB? Nosema C.?Kashmir BV?etc.? Who knows ,likely some of each.
Everything has been restocked,at great expense.I've kept bees most of my life but my confidence as a beekeeper is the lowest its ever been...
Good luck to all of us trying to keep our bees alive.
 
#33 ·
Back at ya loggermike. And don't let those who haven't walked in your shoes get you down. Look back at all of the stuff you have lived through. Some years from now this will be one of those things too, hopefully. If it doesn't kill ya, it'll make ya stronger.
 
#22 ·
I watched the movie and the main message I got was that taking my girls to CA would put them in jeopardy like the people in the show. Maybe the stress or the diseases on the blooms etc is causing it. It was very interesting and thought provoking. Even the guy that was successful from the south starting having losses after he returned home from CA. So CA might be place to stay away from. They have the terminator as the Governor so maybe it is a sign. I think it is a greater problem then the show portrays.

Losing 70% of 2000 hives would be devastating and I think she had already suffered 30% losses before she left taking her down to the 2k number.

They did not address the bee keeper that does not take there hives anywhere. Does CCD still happen to them also. Reading the posts I would say it does wish they had gone into that a bit. Is it global or just more of a US thing.?

Is there places that we can get our politicians to donate money to help. Write letters to help publicize that fact that we need more research.?
 
#35 ·
I watched the movie and the main message I got was that taking my girls to CA would put them in jeopardy like the people in the show.

Losing 70% of 2000 hives would be devastating and I think she had already suffered 30% losses before she left taking her down to the 2k number.

They did not address the bee keeper that does not take there hives anywhere. Does CCD still happen to them also.

Is there places that we can get our politicians to donate money to help. Write letters to help publicize that fact that we need more research.?
A. It ain't necassarily taking them to the groves that is killing them.
B. How many of her hives were dead before they were taken out of the wearhouse and loaded on the semi? They didn't show them being looked at before going to CA.
C. Stationary bees have been hit too. Yes, it is happening in Europe too. From Poland to Spain.
D. I think that we are getting pretty good media attention and we have gotten research dollars just a couple of years ago.
 
#23 ·
JBG
I disagree with you that moving bees to almonds is causing big loses and the problem. Beeks have moved bees for decades without this happening. When I lost 50% of my operation I had never been to Ca. Its true moving bees is stressful, both to the beek and bees. Whats killing the bees is a weakoned immune system (pesticides?)! THen the stress of droughts, moving, other weather related causes and mites(virusus) is the straw that broke the camels back....but the ultimate cause is a weak immune system! Read my post I made in bee diseases urban beekeeping vs country beekeeping. A beek I know lost 2000 of 2500 colonies last fall, MOST before he moved them to FL. He has NOT USED ANY pesticides legal or illegal for years(6-7). He sells nucs(until last yr) so all his comb is 5 yrs of less old with no exposure to miteicides. He raises his own queens, DOES NOT GO TO CA, never has and only makes one move a year....honey producing yards in north to fl to raise bees(nucs) and queens. Produces little orange honey and makes his honey up north. His area up north is cropland with a high concentration of vegs and other crops with lots of pesticide use(neonictinoids). He now has many hives that are going downhill fast..CCD symptoms. He bascially is a nonmiteicide use beek using thymol and other natural controls and has a LOW mite count!!! So its not Ca almonds as the cause!!
 
#27 ·
JBG
I disagree with you that moving bees to almonds is causing big loses and the problem. Beeks have moved bees for decades without this happening. So its not Ca almonds as the cause!!
Here is my thinking on this Suttonbeeman. What I did learn from watching the program was just how rapidly they have expanded the size of the CA almond crop and what a big success it has been globally. We just did not have a single 100% bee dependent crop in the US of this size 40 years ago. Sure bees were moved around but nothing like it is now both in the concentration in that area of CA and numbers of bee colonies. Many of the beeks in the program mention this. I don't think there is anyplace else on Earth that has this kind of bee Ag. going on now and it has never happened on this scale historically either I don't think.
 
#24 ·
The most disturbing thing to me watching the show, was installing the new packages directly into the dead out hives. At least that was the impression I got. If they did remove all the old frames and wax it wasn't shown. To me, if the hive died out, putting the new packages right back into that dead out was foolish in my mind. Maybe that's all he could do to get the contract fufilled fast but I'm curious if those packages made it to fall or spring.
 
#26 ·
Maybe that's all he could do to get the contract fufilled fast but I'm curious if those packages made it to fall or spring.
I pay $70 a package and they are not shipped. Can you imagine what he spent to have them sent in from Australia over night.? He could not have made much money filling the contract. But, maybe he kept his reputation with the farmers.
 
#29 ·
You guys do know that CCD is probably just the result of the israeli paralysis virus right? Google USDA research on CCD, theyre saying 96% of CCD cases involved IPV, and that other 4 percent is probably the pesticides. They also said healthy hives had NO IPV present. Why they wont call these obvious statistics teh "cause" of CCD is beyond me. I'm in college studying Biology sciences, and I can defintiely say, 96% is NOT coincidental levels. I've simply concluded that I won't be pollinating if any other commercial interest has bees at the same location. I defintiely won't be going to Hellifornia. If I do go, for the prices they pay, they can just keep the gear and all. All those australian bees they fly in that are comingling with US bees, some of them carry the disease, which we all know is transmitted by varroa. So everyone can cry out that its stress and pesticide, but its really just too many bees in one spot, sick bees getting robbed, resulting in, alot of sick bees. If someone has the time to find the link to the USDA thing before I get time, do post it.
 
#44 ·
I think blaming CCD on almond orchards is a little like blaming car breakdowns on major highways. Most auto malfunctions happen on highways because the cars just happen to be there: most of the commercial bees happen to go to California. As mentioned before, commercials NOT going to California have reported similar collapses. The reason why you primarily hear about it from commercials (who just happen to go to California) is that it is their livelihood and exponentially more colonies die. When a hobbyist has a high percent crash they blame themselves or starvation or whatever. It is not as financially important to them. When you think about it, losing 5 of 10 colonies or similar is a pretty high loss but I would guess not uncommon. Or 1 out of 1, that is 100%!! But while some might suspect CCD (that is the in vogue bee boogieman right now) they are more likely to blame mites or starvation or any of the other usual suspects.
Like any other communicable disease, higher population masses, especially those being pushed hard for productivity are more susceptible. Smaller isolated non mobile colonies would have an edge, other things equal.
Sheri
 
#47 ·
When a hobbyist has a high percent crash they blame themselves ...
Sheri
I am anything but a hobbyist, but I always blame myself first and then look for reasons outside of my control. Like this summers crop failure. The bees are in good shape and we still didn't make much of a crop of honey. So, I thought that maybe the mite loads were too high. Then I started hearing about the dismal crop all over NY. So, even though mite counts may be somewhat high, I'm not alone in not having a good crop.
 
#45 ·
There was a lot of of joking about CCD for awhile.(not the losses, just the name) PPB and other such comments.
Truth is,there are major losses of bees going on in many outfits(I know of plenty that never made the news). I started seeing this several years back in semi loads of bees coming into holding yards from out of state hives in January. There has been a huge amount of guessing on the cause. I bounce back and forth on the reasons. But it is becoming apparent that there are new pathogens at work, spreading from outfit to outfit. And of course Sherri is right-the almonds just happens to be where all the hives are mingled.
I have seen that it is not taking as many varroa mites to cause viral problems as it used to. Nosema C is everywhere now and add in drought and maybe some Tracheal mites and sooner or later the 'perfect storm ' arrives in YOUR bees.
 
#49 ·
What is the commercial opinion on this group and what they are doing with CCD.
http://www.beeologics.com/

My opinion is very high of Israeli agriculture and biotech from everything I've seen. They really know how to grow stuff in a harsh enviornment. I use a type of greenhouse covering from an Israeli group that is remarkable in how it filters light, enhancing plant growth....
http://www.polygal-northamerica.com/

Israel has great greenhouse tech in general. Really innovative....
http://www.bio-bee.com/site/
 
#50 ·
What Mike and Mark are talking about is so very true for most of us...the emotional toll that heavy losses take. Everyone else is doing better, why didn't I do that too, It's all my fault, and so on. Something has changed, it's much much more difficult to keep your bees healthy these years than it used to be. Picking up truckloads of deadouts is a lot of hard work and very depressing. Think how good you feel when they are all boiling over, well there is another side to that coin. Then you have to spend money you don't really have, just to get back to an economic unit. How to keep that enthusiasm? When it all becomes a burden you're just a step away from quitting all together. :pinch:
 
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