Brood in Super "What can I do"

[Tchapel]

Pulled all my supers today and found brood in the 1st super. Didn't put a queen excluder on because of other advice I recieved. This hive is very strong, started only with foundation on everything and ended up with 7 supers.

What do I do with the brood in the super, this hive needs honey in the brood boxes and I have to feed them quickly. I pulled 3 frames from this super and extracted it leaving only 6 frames of brood.

The 2 lower brood boxes also have brood in them and very little honey.

Should I pull the super and just let the brood die or throw the top feeder on right away with the super on it.

Thanks

[honeyman46408]

Now put the excluder on and put the super above it and let the brood emerge

[Roland]

Knock the hive down to the brood chamber, brush or blow all the bees from the "infested" super into the brood chamber, THEN put on an excluder, and the super. You did well this year. May I ask where(roughly) in Milwaukee your bees
are?

Roland

[DRUR]

Why did you pull and extract the honey supers if the bees do not have enough honey?

In your location how much honey is required to go through the winter? My guess would be over 100#. I don't like going through winter down here with less than that, and I can feed anytime if a colony runs low. Freezing could be a problem there.

As the bees make adequate stores of honey for the winter, they will fill out the upper supers first, thereby pushing the queen and the broodnest lower. I am assuming by super you mean a medium super. A deep fully capped with honey has about 60# of honey. A medium has about 42-45# of honey. You should also have 2-3 frames of pollen/honey (also called bee bread) stored. That is down here in Texas where we only have a month or two without pollen sources. I would guess that in Wis. you would need twice this.

Italians have a tendency to keep an open brood nest, thereby contiunously raising brood when not needed. Therefore you have to 'manage' your colonies to force the brood nest to contract to an area where the queen can only raise 10,000-20,000 bees (about 3 deep frames). If you have a good late fall flow coming, don't feed and see if you can make some honey. If your area doesn't and you decide to feed, start feeding and keep feeding until the bees push the queen out of the super.

If you intend to winter with only two deeps, then be sure the queen is below the supers in the two deeps and keep her there with a queen excluder. As soon as the bees in the brood nest hatch pull the supers, and then feed to contract the brood nest.

[Tchapel]

I pulled the supers because up here no one goes through the winter with a super on. I was planning on going through the winter with 2 broods.

Also I have a problem with my excluders, the bees dont seem to fit through it.
I stand there and watch them squeeze through but only a couple can fit.

My objective now, (I guess) is to force them to store honey in the brood boxes.

Are you saying wait until the the brood hatches and dont feed with the super on?

I am losing days on feeding this hive for winter. They are still bringing pollen and honey in but its slowing down.

[Tchapel]

South about 20 miles.

[DRUR]

I pulled the supers because up here no one goes through the winter with a super on. I was planning on going through the winter with 2 broods.

My objective now, (I guess) is to force them to store honey in the brood boxes.

Are you saying wait until the the brood hatches and dont feed with the super on?

From this post and your prior post I am assuming you don't want to go through winter with a medium honey super; but rather with only two deeps.

I would shake the bees down into the lower 2 deep brood boxes. Place a queen excluder above, place the 4 frames of medium brood in a medium box on top and check about every 3 days. As each frame emerges (shouldn't be over 12 days after sealing/capping), pull the frames. When all the medium frames have emerged remove the medium box. I would not kill the brood, as the bees have used resources to raise these.

You now have all the bees in your two deep brood boxes. Feed until the top deep and all but about 3 frames of the bottom deep are full of honey/pollen. Most of the top box should be capped honey with maybe just a little pollen/beebread. Check with some of the locals to determine if about 100# of honey is enough to go through winter with, because this is about all you will have. I am assuming it is standard to winter in your area with two deep brood boxes.

[Michael Bush]

Of course if your boxes are all the same size, you just move the brood down to the brood chamber and swap it for some honey...

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslazy.htm#uniformframesize

[Tchapel]

So basically dont feed until all the brood have emerged, pull the super and then feed.

If thats what your saying, then I lose 12 days of feeding which puts me into mid Sept.

Is it worth for a few thousand brood?

If I do this is there enough time to feed before snow, which usually starts in mid Nov.

There is very little honey in either brood box right now and its tough to even see whats going on because the bees are stacked on top of one another. It seems to me that they all dont fit in 2 brood boxes.

What are the advantages of leaving the super on over the winter?

[Tchapel]

The advantages of running all mediums are obvious and I would have done that if I would have known all the facts before I began.

Unfortunately I have deeps and meds. But I also got 200 lbs of honey out of this hive this year and only started with foundation.

[DRUR]

>So basically dont feed until all the brood have emerged, pull the super and then feed.<

If you feed before the brood emerges, the bees will backfill the medium supers before you have a chance to pull the frames.

>If thats what your saying, then I lose 12 days of feeding which puts me into mid Sept.<

Correct

>Is it worth for a few thousand brood?<

4 frames of Mediums 75% full of brood = about 15,000, Yes its worth it.

>If I do this is there enough time to feed before snow, which usually starts in mid Nov.<

Should be plenty of time if you keep syrup on them all the time. Freezing could be a concern. With large bee population and free access to syrup it won't take very long.

>There is very little honey in either brood box right now and its tough to even see whats going on because the bees are stacked on top of one another. It seems to me that they all dont fit in 2 brood boxes.<
If you have just come out of a major flow and these bees have been hard at work, many will be dying shortly. Reduction in area could artificially induce swarming so you must monitor the situation closely.

>What are the advantages of leaving the super on over the winter?<

I am from the South, you stated you did not want to winter with medium honey supers. I don't understand why not, but I am not from up north. If it was down here in Texas I would winter with a medium super with honey.

Another option is to place a medium super full of honey on the bottom. Scrape the cappings off exposing the honey, place the queen excluder, and then the deep boxes. The bees should move the honey to the upper deeps and recap. You could even put 2 mediums under the excluder scraping both. PM Michael Bush and get him to give you more details. I would rely on his input. Nebraska is a lot further north than Texas, but they don't have the humidity that Wisconsin does.