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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cleveland, Texas
    Posts
    1,378

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    Quote Originally Posted by oldenglish View Post
    ...... I have also been told by others that after this amount of time the gear is forfeit.
    Better check the regulations concerning abandoned hives for your state. In Texas, the Office of the Chief Apiary Inspector is the only one with the power to order the seizure and sale of abandon hives. They also are the ones who determine if the hives are in fact "abandon". They must either notify the owner via certified mail, or if they can't find them, they must publish notification of the intent to seize for 5 consecutive days in a local publication. In addition, if they do seize and sell them, they are required to advance the proceeds to the owner of the bees and or equipment sold less the cost of the sale. Again if the owner cannot be located the funds are turned over to the state and placed in the state's unclaimed property fund.

    In our state, there is no justification for any private citizen to seize or use the property of a beekeeper, even if it is considered abandon. Doing so is a violation of the law and will subject that person to criminal prosecution. There is legal recognition that an agreement exists between the beekeeper and the landowner (verbal or otherwise) and it also appears that this agreement by default has limited survival when the land ownership changes. Unless you have it in writing, the fact that the land owner or his heirs/assigns has lost contact with the beekeeper does not give them the right to appropriate his property. Absent any written agreement to the contrary, their single avenue of recourse lies with the Office of the Chief Apiary Inspector. Our laws contain fairly strong protection of chattel property rights at least as far as beekeepers are concerned.
    Last edited by Gene Weitzel; 09-14-2009 at 05:09 PM.
    "The UNKNOWN, huh? That would be SNORBERT ZANGOX over in Waycross."

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    SNOHOMISH, WA, USA
    Posts
    267

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    You have to love Washington State, they still want us to pay to register hives, but they got rid of the Apiary Inspectors office years ago.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Issaquah,WA,USA
    Posts
    2,344

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    Quote Originally Posted by oldenglish View Post
    You have to love Washington State, they still want us to pay to register hives, but they got rid of the Apiary Inspectors office years ago.
    Yea but, the fee is pretty nominal. I paid a 15 cent fine last year for registering late. I think I paid $10.15. Lets not complain without knocking on wood. Or Greg-u-r-a-lousy-governor will figure out a way to charge us more if she figures it out.
    Last edited by EastSideBuzz; 09-15-2009 at 09:18 AM.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Cleveland, Texas
    Posts
    1,378

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    Quote Originally Posted by oldenglish View Post
    You have to love Washington State, they still want us to pay to register hives, but they got rid of the Apiary Inspectors office years ago.
    They would have to re-write a big chunk of the Texas Agricultural Code to eliminate that office here. And since the Office of the Chief Apiary Inspector is very tightly aligned with Texas A & M University, I doubt that the political will to do it will materialize anytime soon.

    If you have not done it already, you may still want to check out your state's Ag Code for procedures on the legal disposition of abandon hives.
    "The UNKNOWN, huh? That would be SNORBERT ZANGOX over in Waycross."

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Malabar, FL
    Posts
    1,268

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    Gene is right the hobbyist beepkeeper who has a newly painted box with a beautiful metal flashing covering the lid might look at a commercial guys beeyard and see multi-colored and weathered boxes sitting on pallets near the ground and think "thats not how I keep my bees, those da*n commercial guy just don't care". I'm not making excuses for those few beeks who don't care, but as Gene points out, time will cull the POOR commercial beekeepers. It was also pointed out when your keeping track of hundreds or thousands of hives, everyonce in a while a few might accidentally be forgotten.
    As a full time law enforcement officer and a commercial beek, I'd better not catch anyone opening my hives, or lurking around my yards. My hives are just as healthy as yours (if not more so) but they just might not be as pretty as the ONE you have in your back yard.
    If your concerned CALL but don't touch, if you want them you HAD BETTER get permission from someone of authority, and most of the time its better to leave your nose out of someone elses business unless your ASKED to address a problem.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Lauderdale County TN USA
    Posts
    387

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    Quote Originally Posted by Countryboy View Post
    I don't use deeps so I don't know the price off the top of my head, but $12 for deeps seems kind of high. Specially for a bulk order.

    I'm not buying bulk (unless you consider 10 or 20 boxes to be a bulk order) - and that's the total price. No shipping costs on top of that.

    I can't build boxes with free rough cut lumber for that, when I factor in my labor/time costs.


    I sell mine for 10$ assembled in units of ten or more. Shipping is on top of that though
    Affordable bee equipment supplier. www.carmacksupply.com

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    OKC, OK USA
    Posts
    2,869

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    Oklahoma law.

    35:30-38-9. Abandoned apiaries
    (a) Any abandoned apiary may be confiscated by the Department.
    (b) Prior to confiscation of the abandoned apiary, the Department shall take reasonable steps to locate the owner.
    (1) The owner, lessee, or renter of the land where the apiary is discovered shall be notified.
    (2) The local beekeeping organization shall be notified and given sixty (60) days to locate the owner.
    (3) A notice of confiscation shall be placed at the apiary one hundred and eighty (180) days prior to confiscation.
    (c) If the Department is unable to locate the owner upon completion of the above steps, it shall
    destroy the apiary or donate the apiary to an appropriate research facility.

    B. All abandoned apiaries observed or captured in counties where Africanized honeybees have
    been detected shall be destroyed.
    Last edited by NasalSponge; 09-15-2009 at 02:34 PM. Reason: AHB law
    Mike Forbes
    Red Dirt Apiaries

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    SNOHOMISH, WA, USA
    Posts
    267

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    As far as I can tell Washington state gutted their RCW back in 2000 when they did away with the Apiary Inspector. The old RCW had provisions for abandoned hives but not the new one, in fact the new RCW just creates an advisory board, makes it a midemeanor to not register hives and allows the board to spend the money collected without the need to purchase anything.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=15.60

    RCW Sections
    15.60.005 Definitions.
    15.60.010 Apiary advisory committee.
    15.60.021 Registration of hives.
    15.60.031 Late registration fee.
    15.60.040 Money collected under chapter -- Placement -- Disbursement.
    15.60.055 Violations -- Penalty.
    15.60.065 Apiary coordinated areas -- Hearing to establish.
    15.60.075 Apiary coordinated areas -- Order describing.
    15.60.085 Apiary coordinated areas -- Boundary change procedure.
    15.60.095 Apiary coordinated areas within certain counties.
    15.60.900 Severability -- 1977 ex.s. c 362.
    15.60.901 Effective date -- 2000 c 100.

    Democratic goverment at its very best.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Bloomington In
    Posts
    790

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    What has been done about the bees. give me there phone number I'll call

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Azle, TX, USA
    Posts
    266

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    Quote Originally Posted by Gene Weitzel View Post
    They are two completely different things. I am beginning to understand why many wanted this particular forum to be limited to commercial beekeepers and sideliners only when discussions were taking place about creating a Commercial/Pollination forum.
    I'm glad it is opened to everyone. I'm on my way to becoming a sideliner, and frankly, the information I've gotten on this forum -including that of Gene Wetizel - surpasses by far anything else I've found. It's very helpful for even a hobbyist, even though there are obvious differences in operations. So, I hope you don't continue to feel this way and that was a response to just this thread. I think those kinds of differences and frustration can occur on any of the forum areas.

    And while I kinda do feel like my bees are pets to some extent (and hate to squash them or see any creature suffer) and keep mine painted and 'pretty' (partly because of the yard locations, partly for me), it helps to keep perspective and to realize these are insects that live around 45 days. And if ANYONE came onto my property without my permission I would be livid. The same goes for anyone messing with my hives, whether on my property or in yards with owner agreement. Their neighbors' opening my hives? Though I don't believe it was actually established if the hives were opened or not. Regardless a phone call is fine - even helpful, anything else is not imo. To me that's the simple, practical solution. I don't know why anyone would consider anything else without trying it first. Has the owner ever been called?
    __________
    Terri

  11. #51

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    while I am not condoning illegal intrusion or other illegal behavior on anyone's part, for those who feel that people should just butt out and not pay heed to what is plainly visible on neighboring property, I am certain you would agree that those commercial animal breeders such as dog and horse breeders who have turned up in the news several times for downright starvation and abuse of those animals would agree that the nosy folks should just mind their own business.

    However, I would bet at the same time, those animals found still still living and able to be treated back to health are certainly glad someone was worried about them.

    Bees may be "only' insects to some folks and some folks may take the attitude that no other life on earth is as 'valuable' as human life, it is still within everyones responsibility to be responsible for all the lives they are entrusted with, animal, insect or otherwise.

    You should be glad someone cares enough for the colonies well being to take a peek in on them, if they are responsible and do call the landowner or keeper, you may have them to thank for giving you necessary information that helped you save those lives and your investment.

    Again, if folks are just scraping around trying to see what they can get away with, lock and load.

    Big Bear

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Azle, TX, USA
    Posts
    266

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    I agree with you Big Bear, and I value all life. I even take spiders outside and release them, and am often given a hard time for having too much compassion towards 'non-human' life. And I love my bees and tend to baby them and can't stand having to get rid of a queen. Frankly, I would be fine if someone even called the police if they suspected anything was suffering on my farm. I'm still against the trespassing, however. If they see anything they can call me or the authorities. However, when they come onto my property, in addition to the trespassing, there are liable issues should they get hurt. And if they open my hives elsewhere, I would assume the same thing. If they were stung and had to go to the hospital, they'd probably blame (and sue) me.

    Not to mention, who's to know what some stranger is actually doing in your hives? The starter of the thread obviously had good intentions, but you can't assume that of everyone, or that the person even knows anything about bees. I've heard many tales of people stealing the bees & honey inside, and unfortunately, some people just do things for meanness. Like put poison in a hive, vandalize, etc. I want to know everything that's been put inside my hive, so I can better manage it. Of course, I check my hives often enough to try to avoid problems. Anyway, for these reasons, I still think someone that sees a problem should call first, before doing anything else. Even if it were a dog or other pet, you'd probably call the authorities or someone before breaking into someone's house to help it.
    __________
    Terri

  13. #53

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    You are right, I am not implying they should literally 'peek in on them'. But when someone sees some hives that have been seemingly unattended in very poor condition, etc.. which is noticeable from a distance, perhaps a call is in order. As some have said, sometimes in all the hustle and bustle, hives can be 'misplaced' especially if the hire help doesn't do a good job of documenting the locations they dropped them in.

    Big Bear

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    omaha nebr. USA
    Posts
    494

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    Big Bear, how many years have you kept bees or been a beekeeper?

  15. #55

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    Is this a contest? I win? I never win anything.

    I'd like to thank the academy ...sorry.

    I have been an "assistant" bee keeper to a honey producer beekeeper in southeast IA for about a year and a half, give or take.

    He retired some time ago and I am now on my own bee handling adventure to have my own conservation oriented apiary, coming this spring.

    Do I at least get a door prize?

    Big Bear

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    omaha nebr. USA
    Posts
    494

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    No sorry.
    No door prize ever offered.
    Just some simple question at best.
    My son & I always agree,
    please come spend a few days in the bees with us & see just how bad of people we really are.
    If we kept bees today as we did 30 plus years ago when I started in the business I would not be in business to write about it.

  17. #57

    Default Re: A mini rant about commercial pollinators

    you will recall, that I personally never expressed any problem with commercial beekeepers.

    I only tossed in my two cents that just because someone is concerned about bees they see isn't automatically a criminal.

    The world of bees and bee keeping requires a variety of people involved in a number of ways because no one can do it all. there is room for the commercial pollenator/honey producer just as there is room for the hobbyist or conservationist.
    each has there own niche to fill.

    I happen to agree that not all commercial beekeepers are 'bad guys' I used to help one, he was a very good guy.

    Big Bear

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