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  1. #161
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cocke County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    70

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Since my soon to be ex-wife will soon own the company (which is what she wants), you should contact her lawyer Aisha Rahman, at (865) 637-0484.

  2. #162
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    EL Paso, Wisconsin
    Posts
    115

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    RE: LONG CREEK APIARIES/WINTERS APIARIES
    MY YEAR WITHOUT HONEY BEES

    I am a humble beekeeper who likes my privacy, however, looks like many beekeepers are in the same ‘beehive’ of being swindled out of money and honey bees David Winters promised to send. This is my experience, and I would like to share it with you.

    This is my first year without honey bees, because of David Winters. I ordered 7 packages from David Winters in February 2010 and sent him a cashier’s check for $740.00, which David Winters cashed 3 days later. I was promised delivery of bees on numerous dates from the 1st of May through the 14th of June, 2010, when I finally canceled my order. I demanded a full refund. I hired an attorney to send a demand letter. My attorney has received no response from David Winters to date, and David Winters has ignored the demand letter, and I have no refund.

    I have been swindled out of $740.00, not to mention the expenses for long distance phone calls to David Winters, and the costs relative to receiving package bees and preparing healthy hives. I have built up a very good client base for my honey products, and David Winters has cost me this business and income for this year. I have paid an attorney and incurred additional alternative costs and time to recover the money David Winters stole from me.

    David Winters does not answer his phone or reply to emails. David Winters has insulted me with a number of arrogant emails, false claims of personal problems, and continues to remind me that shareholders are not liable for Long Creek Apiaries debt.

    First, David Winters personal problems are not my problems and further, I feel these are private matters.

    Most importantly, as a business owner and a former investigator, a shareholder who pierces the corporate veil CAN be held personally accountable and liable. I would like to point out that FRAUD is not dischargeable, under any circumstances. A shareholder can be held personally liable.

    I have been doing business with David Winters and Long Creek Apiaries for several years. For the past two years the Russian bees i have ordered from David Winters have died. All of them. Beekeeper error or problem supplier? Queens were clipped when I did not order clipping. Delivery dates were never on time. Confirming a delivery date was impossible. 3 queens were sent to the wrong delivery address and they sat in a mailbox in 90 temps. Receipts for payments were never sent, emails were rarely answered and David Winters was very hard to reach by phone. The Russians Winters claimed and advertised as pure Russians, are not; they were and are hybrids. David Winters falsely claimed that he was a member of the Russian Honey Bee Breeders Association. Before I realized the bees were not pure Russians as David Winter’s claimed, it was too late, I had already placed my order and sent him money.

    I have been keeping Russian bees since I started beekeeping. Russians are very winter hardy, mite resistant and good honey makers. With good management practices and knowledge of Russian bee characteristics, a beekeeper will do well and the bees can survive harsh northern winters. I have had much success. There are many variables, but I did not have the honey bee losses until I started ordering from David Winters. Because Russians are hard to come by, I ignored all the warning signs and that is my fault and my error.

    It is hard to get bees now. There are crashes and weather problems. The costs for packages and queens are going up, unless we raise our own. Our customer’s, families, and friends ask questions more than they ever did because of all the press about honey bee losses. It is hard work whether you are a hobby beekeeper, a side liner or a commercial beekeeper. A beekeeper really never gets paid for what we do. We keep wild stinging things in a box just for fun.

    Under the current state of honey bees, for me, it is hard to understand another beekeeper, David Winters, stealing, and swindling from me, another beekeeper.

    David Winters full name is William David Winters. David Winters also has another website, WINTERS APIARIES, for which he is advertising sales for 2011. The website in July stated plainly that Winters Apiaries was A Long Creek Apiaries, Inc. Company. That has been removed. There is a different address, but David Winters phone number.

    For every statement David Winters has made on this forum and by email to me relative to his personal problems regarding divorce litigation or hinting bankruptcy, these claims are false. I have checked David Winters claims through the appropriate agencies. (see below)

    I may not recover my money or bees that were stolen from me, but I do have alternatives, and actions I can take so that other beekeepers do not follow in my disappointing footsteps. I would like to explain what I have done.

    FILED COMPLAINTS WITH THE FOLLOWING AGENCIES:

    *Office of the Attorney General Tennessee Division of Consumer Affairs –online or by mail

    *Phone call to E. Ross White, Asst. Director Tenn. Div Consumer Affairs (above) Direct phone #: 615-532-8278, I picked up the phone and call him. Mr. White told me that the Tennessee Division of Consumer Affairs would like to receive more phone calls and complaints like mine. Mr. White asked me to encourage anyone i knew with a similiar complaint as mine to call or file a complaint with their office.

    *Us Postal Inspection Service Mail Fraud, Memphis, Tennessee-online or by mail. This office asked me to encourage anyone i knew with a similiar complaint as mine to file a complaint as i have.

    *Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection-online only

    *Internet Crime Complaint Center (FBI based organization)-online only

    *Better Business Bureau of Tennessee-online only

    OTHER THINGS I CAN DO:

    *Cocke County General Sessions Court-File a civil judgment against Long Creek Apiaries-phone # 423-623-8619, it will cost me $170.00 to file.

    *Cocke County Sheriff’s Office, Newport, Tennessee - I can place a phone call and report a theft of my money.

    * Have an attorney send a demand letter to David Winters.

    *Contact David Winters Attorney, Mr. Clyde Dunn, phone number 423-623-5756. His name and phone number are a matter of public record.

    *Contact his wife’s attorney, To dispel David Winter’s claim that his wife will soon own the company. I will not post his wife’s name, I don’t feel this is appropriate. As stated by David Winters, the attorneys number is 865-637-0484.

    * Petition for and obtain a Full Faith and Credit Judgment in my state. This is available to me and is recognized and enforced in the State of Tennessee.

    * Send an email or contact a Tennessee newspaper. - I can send an email or contact a Tennessee Newspaper about my experience.

    *American Bee Journal- send an email and reaffirm what others have. They will not run David Winters ads until he redeems himself with all customers.

    *Bee Culture Magazine-send an email and reaffirm what others have. They too will not run David Winters ads until he redeems himself with all customers.

    *Department of Agriculture, Tennessee State Apiarist, Mike Studer- I can send him an email or letter about what happened to me.

    *Russian Honey Bee Breeders Association- I can send Charlie Harper an email about what happened to me.

    *I can report my experience to my local beekeepers association, if my association has a website; I can encourage them not to place a link to Long Creek Apiaries or Winters Apiaries website.

    *I can report my experience to my supplier.

    *I can report my experience or make a comment of my experience to an organization/website that carries links to Long Creek Apiaries or Winters Apiaries.

    PUBLIC RECORDS THAT ARE AVAILABLE TO ME:

    *U. S. Bankruptcy Court, Eastern District of Tennessee, Greeneville, Tennesse, phone number 423-787-0113, press 0 for assistance. I just asked them to do a search under David Winter’s name or Long Creek Apiaries, and they told me whether he has filed for bankruptcy or not(he has not as of 9-22-2010), and if he does, I can call in the future and they can advise me of the status of the case.

    *Tennessee Department of State, Tennessee Business and UCC Fillings for Corporate papers filed for Long Creek Apiaries. Website:
    http://www.state.tn.us/sos/bus_svc/. Online, I can view and print off Long Creek Apiaries Cooperation Corporate papers and history. I selected ‘business information search’ in the box. UCC filings are liens filed against a particular company. Long Creek Apiaries has no liens currently filed.

    *Cocke County Tennessee County Court Clerk, phone # 423-623-6176. I requested the status of a divorce between David Winters and his wife. This is public record. David Winters filed for divorce June 4, 2009. As of the date of this post there are no settlement discussions on the table, the wife has not asked for the business and there has been no court/attorney activity on this case for sometime. David Winters claims about divorce settlement are false.

    I am willing to help or answer questions relative to my post, just send me a pm.

    Best regards to all,
    riverbee

    Long Creek Apiaries, Winter's Apiaries, David Winters, William David Winters
    Last edited by riverbee1; 09-25-2010 at 10:31 AM. Reason: add tag Long Creek Apiaries, Winter's Apiaries, David Winters, William David Winters

  3. #163
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Fallsburg, KY
    Posts
    302

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Thanks for your post Riverbee1 I will follow up on the contacts you posted. You went to a lot of time trouble making this post, thanks for your effort.
    Mike , Proverbs 24:13-14 Eat honey, my son, for it is good; honey from the comb is sweet to your taste.

  4. #164

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Quote Originally Posted by riverbee1 View Post
    I have been doing business with David Winters and Long Creek Apiaries for several years. For the past two years the Russian bees i have ordered from David Winters have died. All of them. Beekeeper error or problem supplier? Queens were clipped when I did not order clipping. Delivery dates were never on time. Confirming a delivery date was impossible. 3 queens were sent to the wrong delivery address and they sat in a mailbox in 90 temps. Receipts for payments were never sent, emails were rarely answered and David Winters was very hard to reach by phone.
    Ok...I've got to ask. Why did you continue to do business with him?
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  5. #165
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cocke County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    70

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    ATTENTION GUESTS VISITING THIS FORUM: There are 17 pages of entries, but here is the critical information. Of 50 different people that posted here responsible for 165 posts, 28 are not or have never been my customers. Of the rest (22) that are my customers, only 8 have not been filled or refunded. Bottom line is that if you remove all the non customers and customers whose orders have been filled or refunded, then the 17 pages suddenly becomes about 3 pages more or less (a total of 18 posts). I understand that if you are one of the eight (one is too many) you probably are angry. At no time have I ever said that refunds will not be made. I must wait until litigation with my soon to be ex-wife is resolved.

  6. #166
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Beulah,MI
    Posts
    67

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    David you may have never said that refunds will not be made, but you did say in June 2009 that I would get my refund in July 2009 still waiting.....

  7. #167
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,590

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Quote Originally Posted by beemaster01 View Post
    At no time have I ever said that refunds will not be made.
    beemaster01,

    While you may not have said that "refunds will not be made", last October you told your customers:

    "No bees will be shipped to anyone complaining here. It would just be another chance to post a negative remark. It is tempting to take a year or two off (take a long vacation)"

    see posting #66 http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...2&postcount=66

    Guests should also note that this thread was started on
    08-12-2009, and from the numbers you provide, 2/3 of the complaints have been resolved... We can only guess at the amount of money owed to the other third.


    It looks certain that "Days of our Hives" will be picked up for at least one more season...


    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  8. #168
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,590

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Sir,

    You need to explain how the weather prevented you from mailing the customer's money back.

    You kept their money, and used it as your own.
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  9. #169
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Fallsburg, KY
    Posts
    302

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    I'm in the third thats not getting the refund and I would like to know what the weather has to do with refunds?

    I understand weather plays a big role in farming including bee keeping. Farmers don't get paid in advance for corn, hay, tobacco, cattle, etc. They don't have to worry about sending out refunds because of weather. When they have bad weather they take the hit on it not the customer.

    I would gladly donate my refund to see your operations including your web site shut down completely. I hate to see you keep doing what you did to me and others to beekeepers, especially new ones that look so forward to getting their bees and getting started.

    Might want to look into getting a job to settle up with your customers. Your customers have to work to afford to buy the bees from you.
    Mike , Proverbs 24:13-14 Eat honey, my son, for it is good; honey from the comb is sweet to your taste.

  10. #170
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Beulah,MI
    Posts
    67

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Yes I have been very patient , I even gave him another chance to redeem his debt to me this season, the second time he promised on many different dates that i was next, that he was filling 2009 orders before he filled any orders he took this spring of 2010. But then I found out that he filled a few small 2010 orders instead of my 2009 order for 10 packages... heck I even offered him the chance in the winter 2009-2010 to send me payments in increments, only to be ignored. until I got a confirmation e-mail for the delivery of 10 packages of bees in Feb. 2009 to be delivered in May 2010. I'm sorry but I'm at the end of my patience, I didn't air my dirty laundry on this forum, to see if he would actually follow up on his promises, but as we all know this man is not a person who knows how to communicate, or be sure that the customer comes first if you are ever to do business with him

  11. #171
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Rogersville,TN,USA
    Posts
    17

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    In addition to running his apiaries, I am sure that he also runs a Satellite/Satellite Internet under something like the name of 'Wild Blue'. I have seen advertisements in a hobby shop that has the name "David Winters" on it. I am sure that David Winters is not a common name, and certainly not a common name in Parrotsville.

    Mr. Winters, I would give up trying to defend your operation, as well as your reputation. Your reputation among even the local clubs is bad as I have heard horror stories from them as well. You have tried to fight your battle, hitting below the belt at times, and I must say you have been sunk like the Bismark -- fighting a battle where you are outnumbered and where you have made people's hopes, aspirations, and lives living hell.

    Also be aware of this one
    http://caucasianbreeder.com/

    May I also add he clips all the queens he sells, even if you don't ask. I ran into this the first and only time and final time that I ordered from him. Clipping is cruel and inhumane to the queen itself.
    Last edited by Barry; 10-04-2010 at 06:59 AM. Reason: personal attack

  12. #172
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,590

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Quote Originally Posted by beemaster01 View Post
    THAT IS NONE OR YOUR BUSINESS.
    beemaster,

    Most people would agree with you that any relationship issue is a private matter. Most people may also wonder why you were so willing to make your divorce public on Beesource.

    Since my soon to be ex-wife will soon own the company (which is what she wants), you should contact her lawyer Aisha Rahman, at (865) 637-0484.


    As for this, in reference to you clipping all of your queens:

    Question: You must be one of those PETA people, what are you doing on a beekeeping forum?
    PETA has nothing to do with it, as you know.

    Don't most of the knowledgeable beekeepers and your queen-breeding peers believe that clipping can result in queen rejection?
    That's a rhetorical question... we know the answer.


    I wish you had responded to this posting:
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...&postcount=171

    And this one:
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...&postcount=137

    Is "American Bee Supply" going to be your new business name?

    If you are not doing business, shouldn't you remove or change your website on GoDaddy?


    Last edited by honeyman46408; 10-04-2010 at 06:05 AM.
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  13. #173
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cocke County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    70

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeCurious View Post
    beemaster,


    Is "American Bee Supply" going to be your new business name?

    If you are not doing business, shouldn't you remove or change your website on GoDaddy?


    I don't own americanbeesupply.com. Sorry to disappoint you.

  14. #174
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,590

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Quote Originally Posted by beemaster01 View Post
    I don't own americanbeesupply.com. Sorry to disappoint you.
    I'm not one of the disappointed, I get Russian queens from Charlie Harper...

    But you are confusing two things:

    I never said anything about "americanbeesupply.com", but American Bee Supply Inc seems to be next door to you at 3225 Long Creek Rd. There has been some use or registration of that name, at that address.

    The website I was asking about is yours. If you are not doing business shouldn't your website, http://www.longcreekapiaries.com/ reflect that?
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  15. #175
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    knoxville, tn
    Posts
    646

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    public information on the internet is so exciting and revealing.........
    The first Am. bee supply was a legitimate business, had bought from them before, very nice fella.

    http://tnbear.tn.gov/ECommerce/Commo...gNum=000419528

    Click on the history and registered agent, been shut down for a while.

    here is some more public info...........

    http://tnbear.tn.gov/ECommerce/Commo...gNum=000525786
    Last edited by G3farms; 10-04-2010 at 12:12 PM. Reason: found more

  16. #176
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,590

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Quote Originally Posted by beemaster01 View Post
    But the pig is still nothing more than a pig

    Beemaster01,

    In posting #117 ,in June, some friendly advice was offered:

    "Why don't you do yourself a big favor and simply stop responding to the postings here."

    You just missed another opportunity...



    Quote Originally Posted by beemaster01 View Post
    I don't own americanbeesupply.com. Sorry to disappoint you.
    No, but you did own American Bee Supply, and I guess the assets of Long Creek Apiary will soon be liquidated as well. I tell you what, while I despise the way you've treated your customers, you've got my sympathy... (and I'm glad you don't have my money).


    Bankruptcy can't be fun to go through and I believe that the people you owe money to understand that. Some honest, frank conversations may have done a lot of good...

    I hope the customers get their money eventually and I hope you have the support you need to go through this period. I also hope you treat your Mountain Grey Caucasian Bee customers differently. A Google search of "caucasian queens" has your caucasianbreeder.com site at the top so I guess that's a good thing.

    Good Luck to you, and to your customers.
    .
    ..
    .
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  17. #177
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    EL Paso, Wisconsin
    Posts
    115

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    To say the least, for me, this forum has been very informative…. and quite entertaining… especially the recent posts that were deleted for being off topic…. there is truth in humor

    To add to the list of excuses of bankruptcy, divorce, and weather problems, this is what David Winters is now telling me regarding the $740.00 he has swindled from me: “Not once have I refused to refund” (riverbee1’s) “money”. “Just not immediately.” “At no point have I refused to refund the money owed to (riverbee1)”, “Only that it will be repaid at a later date.” ????

    Repaid at a later date???? I am a beekeeper not a bank or a loan company.

    Nonpayment of a refund to me is a refusal to pay.

    Pure and simple to me:
    David Winters actions speak louder than his words to me.
    I do not have honey bees.
    I have no refund.
    101 days, or 3 months and 9 days, no refund.
    This equals fraud to me.

    David Winters told this forum in post #167 “only 8 (Beesource members)”have not been filled or refunded.”

    This is what David Winters also told me, “those 8 customers are responsible for all the complaints. About 90 % + of my unfilled orders will be filled in 2011. Of those not on Beesource that want refunds, all the rest are willing to wait until later for their refunds. Those customers do understand the relationship between the weather and queen breeders.”

    90% plus of his unfilled orders??? These customers are not on Beesource and are waiting for refunds or bees in 2011??? I’d like to hear from these customers.

    I must be a dummy beekeeper, and an impatient Beesource member and customer, when I don’t “understand the relationship between the weather and a” ‘beemaster01’”queen breeder.” What does the weather have to do with not providing my refund?

    Post #167 by David Winters, “eight (one is too many), you probably are angry.

    Yes I am an unhappy customer... and I know what happens when I open a snarly hive.

    Today I am going to send another email to David Winters reminding him of the $740.00 he owes me and ask for it again.
    I just go to date calculation:
    http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html, I type in the date I asked for my refund, and today’s date, and i send David Winters an email with that information.

    101 days, or 3months and 9 days I have been asking and waiting for my refund.

  18. #178
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Beulah,MI
    Posts
    67

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Thanks for the post riverbee1, I got you beat in both categories, I sent a check in Feb. 2009, cashed Mar. 3, 2009. I asked for my refund on june 20ish 2009, promised to see it in July 2009. So $936.90 with interest that I have paid monthly, $90.25, and promised bees both spring 2009 and spring 2010, is 463 days, $1027.15 dollars out of my pocket plus the honey crop, etc. that I counted on as pay back on my investment. I tried to be the nice guy and wait for bees a second time, but you know what they say about where nice guys finish....

  19. #179
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    EL Paso, Wisconsin
    Posts
    115

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Grizbee, that really stings!
    I too am paying interest on my $740.00 I sent in good faith to David Winters, and other expenses I borrowed from my bank to get ready for my bees; a $200.00 solar fencer and extra batteries, to keep the bears out of my apiary, pollen patties, honey b healthy, fumigilan-b, and two 50 pound bags of sugar. A little over a $1,000.00. My time to file complaints. I too, depended on a honey crop as my payback. I will not have that this year, or the income, and it will set me back.

    I will also have to borrow an additional $800 to order bees this year, so I will most likely be paying interest on $1800 or so.

    I email David winters frequently to remind him how many days it has been since I asked for my refund of $740.00. I thought about your post about the interest, so I sent David Winters, and his attorney, an ‘invoice’ detailing the money David winters owes me plus the interest my bank is charging me…….

    Seems I will be at the end of the line for David Winters refunding my money. I am behind you and Mike S. and others in this forum because this is what David Winters told me when I asked for my money and questioned him about the complaints of refunds dating back to 2008 (long before the filing of his divorce); “You are correct, I will refund in order of receipt. It is only fair, I have owed them longer than you and they should be refunded before you.”

    Uh-oh…. you have been waiting for over a year???

    There was some discussion here about American Bee Supply so I contacted the Tennessee Department of State, Business Services Division, and the Tennessee Department of Revenue. David Winters company, American Bee Supply, Inc was dissolved and revoked for revenue reasons on June 28, 2005. Both government agencies told me American Bee Supply was “dissolved and the business license was revoked by the Tennessee Department of Revenue for delinquency of taxes, including one or more of the following: business back taxes, sales and use tax, franchise tax, or excise tax, depending on the nature of the business.” The Tenn. Dept of Revenue also told me that David Winters could not engage in business under American Bee Supply until taxes were paid in full, including penalties and interest.

    I also did a domain search. David Winters acquired the domain name, Long Creek Apiaries, on November 11, 2005, 4 months after American Bee Supply was revoked for revenue reasons by the Tennessee Department of Revenue.

    According to domain searches I did, David Winters has 11 domain names registered to his email address of beeman01@wildblue.net: here are 5: Long Creek Apiaries.com, Caucausianbreeder.com, WildblueTennessee.com, RussianBreeder.net, and Honeybeebreeder.com.

    I have 4 email addresses for David Winters: sales@longcreekapiaries.com; sales@causianbreeder.com; beeman01@wildblue.net; and beeman01@longcreekapiaries.com.

    I have 2 addresses for David Winters:
    3223 Long Creek Road and 3225 Long Creek Road, Parrottsville, Tennessee.

    What does this information add up to? Hmmmm, makes me wonder if I will ever see my money. I wish I had found this forum when it started.

    220 days or 7 months and 6 days since I sent David Winters a cashier’s check for $740.00, cashed 6 days later by David Winters, March 9, 2010.

    101 days or 3 months and 9 days since I demanded a refund from David Winters.

  20. #180
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Fallsburg, KY
    Posts
    302

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Riverbee1 you are doing a great job on your research and proving to the public with facts and not opinions what type of businessman David Winters really is. I feel sorry for you and Grizbee for your huge loss's, wasted time and aggravation, its a shame someone has to go through these things. I was lucky and only wanted to try some Russian bees along with the ones I already have and only ordered two packages. It still is a bad feeling knowing what has happened and how we have been treated by this business. I hope others are paying attention and don't fall into the same trap as ourselves especially with the new business already in operation on the net. under a new name. I'm sure there are many people in the country who are not a member of the forum getting into the beekeeping hobby and wont find the warning soon enough and I hate it for them too. I also wish I had found the thread sooner and avoided all the trouble and loss of money. I haven't let the experience hamper me in the beekeeping hobby and I'm still going full steam ahead. The hobby, or industry is too interesting and exciting to let one individual spoil it. Beekeeping is good for our environment, good for the country's food supply, and I believe good for the soul and I hope not too many people have been discouraged. Again thanks for all your work and hopefully one day positive things will come from it.
    Mike , Proverbs 24:13-14 Eat honey, my son, for it is good; honey from the comb is sweet to your taste.

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