David I'm eagarly waiting to see my check in the mailbox after seeing your post. I will be more than happy to post here when I receive it as I said in my previous post
I contacted Mr. E. Ross White, Asst. Director of Tennessee Consumer Affairs regarding Long Creek Apiaries not sending the bees I paid for in 2010, or not refunding my money. Mr. White suggested that we should have as many people as possible file a complaint with their agency, at www.tn.gov/consumer. He feels that if they receive a number of complaints, they may be able to help. One complaint is not enough, but many complaints can make a difference. He also suggested filing a complaint with the Internet Crime Complaint Center (this is an FBI partnered organization). I have done both of these.
All I can say running a small honey business is you never cash someones check if you can't send them what they ordered. Am I missing a basic business concept. You are then liable to deliver once you cash their payment. Folks who are waiting over 2 years for queens they ordered and never delivered is plain and simple, fraud. Words do not overcome actions?
Yep, taking people's money and not sending them what they bought and not refunding their money is plain and simple fraud. You can talk all you want about why it happened, excuses, and intentions for future repayment, blah blah blah, but it doesn't change the basic fact that it's criminal fraud.
The little bee returns with evening's gloom,
To join her comrades in the braided hive... -Tennyson
Hello David, After reading your post stating your goals for the 2011 season I assumed that I would be at the top of your list for a refund from a package order from 3/5/2009. I'm still looking in my mailbox every day for that refund, just a reminder 30 days after my last post
I think by this time you know that the money is gone. Unfortunately, this happens all too often not only with agriculture but in all industries. As a retired law enforcement officer, I can echo what applepollinator said. File the complaint and if enough are filed both the state and the FBI will file criminal charges. The beauty of the federal charge is that the more complaints filed equal multiple counts. In addition, as a citizen, you do have the right to appear before a federal magistrate and swear out a federal complaint against the individual. It may not lead to an arrest warrant, but will generate a referral to a United States Attorney for review and consideration. If enough people do it, someone will take notice. It's the only way to get these folks off the street.
Like grizbee, I have been in relentless pursuit to recover my money. I may never see it, and I have spent countless hours pursuing every avenue available, including hiring an attorney or two. I have been receiving emails and phone calls, for over a year from hundreds of beekeepers all across the United States. Based on the content of these emails, David Winters of Long Creek Apiaries owes hundreds of beekeepers a very substantial amount of money. In addition, David Winters continues to take orders and money from unsuspecting beekeepers. My opinion, but they wonít see their money and they wonít see their bees based on his history.
Swearing out a federal complaint requires that the complaint be sworn out and filed in the state of Tennessee, and that you also make yourself available to the court if charges are filed. This costs money and a lot of time. I live in the Midwest, and this is not a practical alternative for me or most other beekeepers.
The Tennessee Division of Consumer Affairs has been receiving complaints about David Winters for over a year. The most important thing we can do for ourselves, and others is to file a complaint with this office, and follow up with the agent assigned to your case. I have been doing it for a year, and I have been asking for prosecution not mediation. This is how it works, if enough complaints are received, the Tennessee Div of Consumer Affairs has the power to refer our complaints to the Tennessee Attorney General, for investigation, and prosecution. If David Winters is investigated, and if David Winters is prosecuted, the court may order restitution. See here: Protecting Consumers
Btw, filing bankruptcy does not discharge anyone from criminal activity.
David Winters of Long Creek Apiaries owes me $740.00, for an order I placed on February 23, 2010. I have been demanding a refund since June 29, 2010. 10 months and 15 days, no refund. Many of you are in line way ahead of me on this.
David Winters said his goal here is to pay us all back. I donít believe this either, and I donít believe some of his incredible excuses I have heard from him during the past year. I suggest David Winters go to the bank and borrow the money like a lot of us did to pay him. Money I paid him, and money I am paying interest on.
I hope that I don't turn out to be another one who got ripped off. Before reading about Long Creek on this website, I ordered five packages of Russian bees. According to his website, the only delay is for the week of May 9th by one week. The rest are to be shipped on time. Well, mine were to be shipped the week of May 16th and I still have not heard from the local post office. I have been keeping in touch with the local post office and they know to call me as soon as the bees arrive, but they said no bee packages have arrived. I emailed Long Creek and left a phone message asking to inform me of any delays so that I may know when to expect delivery, but have not received any response. I wish that if weather was delaying any more deliveries, they could make it easy for customers and post it on their website. Otherwise, we can't help but wonder if our experience with them will be like some of the unhappy customers who have posted here. I am getting worried. I did see some happy Long Creek customers post messages, so that gives me some hope.
Yes you may have reason to worry, sounds like the same story but a different chapter...May I ask where did you see happy customers post? I sit here waiting for a refund of $936.90 sent on 3/3/09 and hear about other people getting their orders filled from this season. My wife told me the other day that I was turning blue, I told her I was still holding my breath after walking down to the mailbox to see if my refund check was there for David Winters....
I don't spend much time on this forum, so I can't say which thread, or if it is still there. But when I did a search on Long Creek, I remember some positive responses. One said that his Russian packages from Long Creek out performed other races of bees in his same beeyard. If I remember correctly, he even had a picture showing how many supers he stacked on it. It is possible that I am thinking of something I saw on another website altogether, but I do remember the name Long Creek Apiaries with that post. I think there is a beekeeping forum on gardenweb. Maybe that is where I saw it?
If the guy has sold any bees at all, it's possible someone, somewhere, has had a good experience.
This does not negate the emotional turmoil he is inflicting on others.
Given all the negative responses on this thread, one would have to bee a fool to order from this guy.
It is amazing to me that this guy can continue to steal and get away with it.
Someday he will take money from the wrong person.
God be with him when that day comes.
I am a brand new beek and live fairly close to Long Creek. I am scheduled to go and pickup my first package and queen from David this Sunday at 3:30 (Russians). I'll let you know how it goes. I'm more than a little concerned based on all of the negative threads.
My guess is if you are physically going there and actually seeing the guy, he will cough up the goods.
He will probably also launch a charm offensive on you and tell you how bad the world has been treating him.
This should create another hundred or so responses. I wonder how high the counter on this forum will go.