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#1 ·
Just wondering if anyone out there has dealt with Long Creek Apiaries in Parrotsville, TN. I'm having a really bad experience with them. He cashed my check and never sent the package bees. Besides the BBB of Eastern TN, what would be my best avenue to get my money back?
 
#170 · (Edited)
#172 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

To say the least, for me, this forum has been very informative…. and quite entertaining… especially the recent posts that were deleted for being off topic…. there is truth in humor :applause:

To add to the list of excuses of bankruptcy, divorce, and weather problems, this is what David Winters is now telling me regarding the $740.00 he has swindled from me: “Not once have I refused to refund” (riverbee1’s) “money”. “Just not immediately.” “At no point have I refused to refund the money owed to (riverbee1)”, “Only that it will be repaid at a later date.” ????

Repaid at a later date???? I am a beekeeper not a bank or a loan company.

Nonpayment of a refund to me is a refusal to pay.

Pure and simple to me:
David Winters actions speak louder than his words to me.
I do not have honey bees.
I have no refund.
101 days, or 3 months and 9 days, no refund.
This equals fraud to me.

David Winters told this forum in post #167 “only 8 (Beesource members)”have not been filled or refunded.”

This is what David Winters also told me, “those 8 customers are responsible for all the complaints. About 90 % + of my unfilled orders will be filled in 2011. Of those not on Beesource that want refunds, all the rest are willing to wait until later for their refunds. Those customers do understand the relationship between the weather and queen breeders.”

90% plus of his unfilled orders??? These customers are not on Beesource and are waiting for refunds or bees in 2011??? I’d like to hear from these customers.

I must be a dummy beekeeper, and an impatient Beesource member and customer, when I don’t “understand the relationship between the weather and a” ‘beemaster01’”queen breeder.” What does the weather have to do with not providing my refund?:scratch:

Post #167 by David Winters, “eight (one is too many), you probably are angry.

Yes I am an unhappy customer:lookout:... and I know what happens when I open a snarly hive.

Today I am going to send another email to David Winters reminding him of the $740.00 he owes me and ask for it again.
I just go to date calculation:
http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html, I type in the date I asked for my refund, and today’s date, and i send David Winters an email with that information.

101 days, or 3months and 9 days I have been asking and waiting for my refund.
:no:
 
#173 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Thanks for the post riverbee1, I got you beat in both categories, I sent a check in Feb. 2009, cashed Mar. 3, 2009. I asked for my refund on june 20ish 2009, promised to see it in July 2009. So $936.90 with interest that I have paid monthly, $90.25, and promised bees both spring 2009 and spring 2010, is 463 days, $1027.15 dollars out of my pocket plus the honey crop, etc. that I counted on as pay back on my investment. I tried to be the nice guy and wait for bees a second time, but you know what they say about where nice guys finish....
 
#174 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Grizbee, that really stings!:pinch:
I too am paying interest on my $740.00 I sent in good faith to David Winters, and other expenses I borrowed from my bank to get ready for my bees; a $200.00 solar fencer and extra batteries, to keep the bears out of my apiary, pollen patties, honey b healthy, fumigilan-b, and two 50 pound bags of sugar. A little over a $1,000.00. My time to file complaints. I too, depended on a honey crop as my payback. I will not have that this year, or the income, and it will set me back.

I will also have to borrow an additional $800 to order bees this year, so I will most likely be paying interest on $1800 or so.

I email David winters frequently to remind him how many days it has been since I asked for my refund of $740.00. I thought about your post about the interest, so I sent David Winters, and his attorney, an ‘invoice’ detailing the money David winters owes me plus the interest my bank is charging me…….:)

Seems I will be at the end of the line for David Winters refunding my money. I am behind you and Mike S. and others in this forum because this is what David Winters told me when I asked for my money and questioned him about the complaints of refunds dating back to 2008 (long before the filing of his divorce); “You are correct, I will refund in order of receipt. It is only fair, I have owed them longer than you and they should be refunded before you.”

Uh-oh…. you have been waiting for over a year???

There was some discussion here about American Bee Supply so I contacted the Tennessee Department of State, Business Services Division, and the Tennessee Department of Revenue. David Winters company, American Bee Supply, Inc was dissolved and revoked for revenue reasons on June 28, 2005. Both government agencies told me American Bee Supply was “dissolved and the business license was revoked by the Tennessee Department of Revenue for delinquency of taxes, including one or more of the following: business back taxes, sales and use tax, franchise tax, or excise tax, depending on the nature of the business.” The Tenn. Dept of Revenue also told me that David Winters could not engage in business under American Bee Supply until taxes were paid in full, including penalties and interest.

I also did a domain search. David Winters acquired the domain name, Long Creek Apiaries, on November 11, 2005, 4 months after American Bee Supply was revoked for revenue reasons by the Tennessee Department of Revenue.

According to domain searches I did, David Winters has 11 domain names registered to his email address of beeman01@wildblue.net: here are 5: Long Creek Apiaries.com, Caucausianbreeder.com, WildblueTennessee.com, RussianBreeder.net, and Honeybeebreeder.com.

I have 4 email addresses for David Winters: sales@longcreekapiaries.com; sales@causianbreeder.com; beeman01@wildblue.net; and beeman01@longcreekapiaries.com.

I have 2 addresses for David Winters:
3223 Long Creek Road and 3225 Long Creek Road, Parrottsville, Tennessee.

What does this information add up to? Hmmmm, makes me wonder if I will ever see my money. I wish I had found this forum when it started.

220 days or 7 months and 6 days since I sent David Winters a cashier’s check for $740.00, cashed 6 days later by David Winters, March 9, 2010.

101 days or 3 months and 9 days since I demanded a refund from David Winters.
 
#175 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Riverbee1 you are doing a great job on your research and proving to the public with facts and not opinions what type of businessman David Winters really is. I feel sorry for you and Grizbee for your huge loss's, wasted time and aggravation, its a shame someone has to go through these things. I was lucky and only wanted to try some Russian bees along with the ones I already have and only ordered two packages. It still is a bad feeling knowing what has happened and how we have been treated by this business. I hope others are paying attention and don't fall into the same trap as ourselves especially with the new business already in operation on the net. under a new name. I'm sure there are many people in the country who are not a member of the forum getting into the beekeeping hobby and wont find the warning soon enough and I hate it for them too. I also wish I had found the thread sooner and avoided all the trouble and loss of money. I haven't let the experience hamper me in the beekeeping hobby and I'm still going full steam ahead. The hobby, or industry is too interesting and exciting to let one individual spoil it. Beekeeping is good for our environment, good for the country's food supply, and I believe good for the soul and I hope not too many people have been discouraged. Again thanks for all your work and hopefully one day positive things will come from it.
 
#177 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

What is the topic of this thread?
The topic of the thread is Dealings with Long Creek Apiary. That would be business dealings, since the purpose of the Consumer Reports forum is to "Share your experience with merchants and suppliers, both positive and negative" as stated at the top of the page. It's not a public trial of the business owner, or a forum for personal insults. We're not here to have a trial by jury, then proceed toward punishment based on personal feelings. It's not a place for airing dirty laundry and posting private emails or private messages.
 
#178 · (Edited)
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I respect the forum rules, and appreciate dragonfly’s response regarding the subject of this forum, ‘business dealings with Long Creek Apiaries.’


I went to the bank today to make a payment on my loan of $740.00 plus interest (including additional monies borrowed in preparation of receiving package bees). Money I borrowed from my bank to pay David Winters, of Long Creek Apiaries, in good faith , (as he asked and required) for bee packages David Winters didn’t deliver, and money David Winters has never refunded and refuses to refund to me. Money, in the form of a cashier’s check, David Winters promptly cashed and stole from me.


David Winters does not reply to emails, letters and telephone calls about refunding my money.


I cannot afford to have $740.00 stolen from me. I cannot afford to pay interest on a loan from my bank because of David Winters, with nothing to show or gain from it. In addition, I will have to pay out another $800.00, borrowed from my bank to pay another supplier for package bees in spring 2011.



This is my business dealings with David Winters of Long Creek Apiaries.
 
#179 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I ordered four pkgs of Russians from Long Creek Apiary in spring 2009. Bees did not arrive as promised...weather was to blame. I agreed to roll the order to 2010. After several shipping delays (for various reasons), I canceled my order on 26 June 2010 and requested a refund...still haven't received a refund as of today - 15 Oct 2010...approx 18 months after the order was placed and my check was cashed.

Earlier this week, I telephoned the TN State Apiary Inspector...was advised that I wasn't the first to inquire about this business.
 
#180 · (Edited by Moderator)
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

well I dont think it would have mattered anyway if you got your bees. I recieved my package of bees on July 1, 2010 only ordered one. Had a few troubles starting out but got some help through it on here. My bees started to do good but the queen just never started to lay at much at all. Left them alone hoping for the queen to start laying to get the population up a alittle. Nothing. Now I have a very small hive of bees and seems like every time I go out there, there are less and less. I won't make it through the winter in Alabama but I am ordering from Dixie next year. I have enough for four hives now. Learned what I need to this year, considering this is my first year, and hoping to get on with my new founded hobby with people that care. Thanks for the lesson. Sorry to keep hearing about others dealings.
 
#181 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Sorry to hear your story fitz, sounds just like mine, same song with a different verse, the last straw for me and my patience with David Winters is when he filled 2010 orders, and left us with rollover orders from 2009 holding the bag...
 
#182 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I suspect that the administrators know where to find us….and I have seen many posts deleted in this forum about Long Creek Apiaries because of the personal attacks or inappropriate comments by those of us posting, and by David Winters as well. My ‘bee hat' is off to barry or dragonfly. I wouldn’t want to patrol the postings. This forum provides a place to openly discuss the problems I have experienced with David Winters, and may help another beekeeper. As a consumer, I would have appreciated this forum before I sent my money, and now appreciate it for the information and facts I have learned, and friendships i have made with other beekeepers across the U.S.A..


I have made a number of posts in this forum about David Winters and Long Creek Apiaries, and whatever I have posted, I have said directly to David Winters, by email, letter and telephone, and plenty more. I do not hide behind my user name. David Winters knows full well who I am, and has outright refused to refund my money of $740.00; ignores my attorneys demand letters, and continues to blame his “soon to be ex-wife”, who has no voice here, for his apparent financial difficulties, and lack of customer service.


Most importantly, in all the years I have ordered from Rossman’s, Maxant, Dadant, Betterbee, Mann Lake or other companies I have given my hard earned money to, I have never been refused a credit to my account or been refused a refund, and further, I have had these companies and others adjust my bill or give me additional customer service to correct a situation, to keep my business.

I have never had any of these companies ignore my phone calls, emails or letters as David Winters has. I have never had to hire an attorney to assist me to recover money stolen from me that I have paid to them.

I cannot say that about David Winters of Long Creek Apiaries. This is not a personal attack, for me this is a fact.


I have never had any of these businesses say to me as David Winters recently told me, “Your decision to borrow the money has nothing to do with me. The bees could have died after you got them or many other things could have happened. You assumed the risk when you borrowed the money.”

Well, I guess I did assume the risk, shame on me.:doh: I have never had a beekeeping business, large or small, steal $740.00 from me, and in my eyes, have the arrogance to refuse my refund, and blame their wives. I have never had a business take money from me and not provide the product, or my refund. I have never had a business not try to correct the problem or apologize for a mistake. I have never had a business tell me I assumed the risk of ordering from them.

I had $740.00 stolen from me by David Winters. This is not a personal attack, it is a fact. I won’t sit still for having money stolen from me. I won’t sit still for a a company and an owner, David Winters of Long Creek Apiaries, that is taking orders and money from other beekeepers for 2011, but yet can’t pay money owed to me for bees he did not, and most importantly, could not deliver in 2010.

It is 117 days or 3 months, 25 days, since I have asked for my refund of $740.00. I have no refund. $740.00 is a lot of money to me. There are others in this forum who have been waiting for a refund longer than me.
:waiting:

This is a fact and not a personal attack.
 
#183 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

i would like to add some additional information to my post's, 164, 180,182 and 192.

David Winters of Long Creek Apiaries also owned an additional business, Smokey Mountain Bee Company, Inc. , in the state of Tennessee. I can click on the link to view the entity detail with the Tennessee Department of State. William D. Winters of 3310 Kenyon Road, Parrottsville, Tennesse incorporated the business on April 4, 1994. The record shows Smokey Mountain Bee Company, Inc. is inactive and shows 'Dissolution/Revocation Adminstrative' on January 19, 1996.

I also found another domain name David Winters owns, Honeybeestore.com. Honeybeestore.com takes me to his other website Winters Apiaries or Caucasianbreeder.com. The link I have provided is his domain information, under the name William Winters.

I also checked with the Better Business Bureau, there has been a couple more complaints filed with them since I last checked. The Better Business Bureau has given Long Creek Apiaries an 'F' rating. i can look at the number of complaints filed, for what reasons, and if any have been resolved; Better Business Bureau/Long Creek Apiaries. (geez, i remember getting an 'F' in school....:eek:)

I never really ever used the Better Business Bureau to check out a company until I did business with David Winters of Long Creek Apiaries and had $740.00 stolen from me by him. Lesson learned, i get an 'F' for trusting David Winters of Long Creek Apiaries.

better business bureau/long creek apiaries
 
#186 · (Edited)
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

let's see....
if your looking for him, last i checked.....

long creek apiaries
caucausianbreeder.com
honeybeebreeder.com
honeybeestore.com
russianbreeder.biz
russianbreeder.net
russianhoneybees.com
vshbreeder.net
and
winters apiaries.....

BTW, he still owes me $740 from last spring, 2010; for bees he did not deliver as promised, and a refund that i have asked for since june 2010.
 
#187 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Thanks for reopening this thread,and I must state that I too am still waiting for my refund of $936.90 that I have asked for since june of 2009. Also I just had an anniversary, David you cashed my check on Mar 3,2009 and I still have nothing to show for it, I sure hope you can give me a reason to post something positive here in the near future
 
#188 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I too am stuck for the price of 5 queens ordered paid for a couple of years ago before it seems he started stiffing his customers. Despite occasional reassurances from him that he would take care of it there has been no refund or the appearance of any serious effort to make ammends.

I tried speaking to Dadant in Paris Tx. in person when there but the owner there showed NO interest in or any concern for the business practices of their ABJ advertisers so i no longer will do any business with them either.

The only time i have ever seen him try to correct his thefts was when the home office of Dadant got involved...this was during the time he was operating as LongCreekAparies and advertising in the ABJ. He must have advertising to stay in business, so unless someone can find the media and name of his company advertising in it and pressure can be brought thru same i am not optomistic on any of us seeing our money returned. I do wish everyone well who keeps after this guy though.:applause:
 
#199 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I contacted Mr. E. Ross White, Asst. Director of Tennessee Consumer Affairs regarding Long Creek Apiaries not sending the bees I paid for in 2010, or not refunding my money. Mr. White suggested that we should have as many people as possible file a complaint with their agency, at www.tn.gov/consumer. He feels that if they receive a number of complaints, they may be able to help. One complaint is not enough, but many complaints can make a difference. He also suggested filing a complaint with the Internet Crime Complaint Center (this is an FBI partnered organization). I have done both of these.

I too am stuck for the price of 5 queens ordered paid for a couple of years ago before it seems he started stiffing his customers. Despite occasional reassurances from him that he would take care of it there has been no refund or the appearance of any serious effort to make ammends.

I tried speaking to Dadant in Paris Tx. in person when there but the owner there showed NO interest in or any concern for the business practices of their ABJ advertisers so i no longer will do any business with them either.

The only time i have ever seen him try to correct his thefts was when the home office of Dadant got involved...this was during the time he was operating as LongCreekAparies and advertising in the ABJ. He must have advertising to stay in business, so unless someone can find the media and name of his company advertising in it and pressure can be brought thru same i am not optomistic on any of us seeing our money returned. I do wish everyone well who keeps after this guy though.:applause:
 
#189 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

The goals for Long Creek in 2011 are 1) fill all orders from past years, 2) refund all money for those that don't want the bees, 3) fill all current orders and 4) when all this is done, retire. After following a couple other threads here (see Busybee Apiaires and Russell Apiaries, I concluded that it isn't ever going to get any better as long as this site and other similar sites exist. I remember when beekeepers (not beehavers) understood that this business is farming. Unfortunately that is no longer the case.
 
#190 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

The goals for Long Creek in 2011 are 1) fill all orders from past years, 2) refund all money for those that don't want the bees, 3) fill all current orders and 4) when all this is done, retire. After following a couple other threads here (see Busybee Apiaires and Russell Apiaries, I concluded that it isn't ever going to get any better as long as this site and other similar sites exist. I remember when beekeepers (not beehavers) understood that this business is farming. Unfortunately that is no longer the case.
When dealing with taking orders from people, that are not currently in your possession, the only way to do this without getting your butt in a sling is to escrow the money received until you fill the orders. It is a very poor business practice to operate on monies received before you deliver the product. This business is unlike one where you have a supplier with a warehouse of product that all you have to do is drop ship.

there really is no justifiable reason to spend the money before product is shipped and i think your learning that unfortunately too late.
 
#191 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Comparing yourself to Russell Apiaries is a joke.

They have integrity. Yes they are farmers, and yes they got caught by the weather this year. Are their customers worried? No. They know RA will deliver, but if due to some natural disaster (that hasn't happened) they could not deliver, they have the integrity to return the customers money. Just add here that to my knowledge that has never had to happen.

So sad you would think you are in the same league.

Great to see the goals you have written. Your track record though is that it will just be talk, what will REALLY happen is that you will continue to steal peoples money and ruin their beekeeping experience.

My advice, get a job. Get away from running your own business. Sell assetts or do whatever it takes to return to people what you have taken from them. Your personality, business skills, and ethics, are such that continuing to run your own business you will just continue to dig a deeper hole for yourself.
 
#194 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

You chose to intentionally miss the point. The reference is to the pages and pages of complaints when no complaints should have been made. There is no better way to make my point than you just did by way of personal attacks.
Didn't see any reference.

Are we on the same planet?

I saw a thread about dealing with Russell Apiaries, the thread starter upset cos his order was delayed, other than that pages and pages of support for Russell Apiaries.

Should suggest that thread starter deal with you. Then he'll find out what a real problem is.

I repeat. Pay back what you have taken from people. Only then will you have cred. Your words mean nothing. And stop repeat offending.
I don't think you see yourself as a scammer. But you ARE a scammer.
 
#200 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

All I can say running a small honey business is you never cash someones check if you can't send them what they ordered. Am I missing a basic business concept. You are then liable to deliver once you cash their payment. Folks who are waiting over 2 years for queens they ordered and never delivered is plain and simple, fraud. Words do not overcome actions?
 
#201 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Yep, taking people's money and not sending them what they bought and not refunding their money is plain and simple fraud. You can talk all you want about why it happened, excuses, and intentions for future repayment, blah blah blah, but it doesn't change the basic fact that it's criminal fraud.
 
#202 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Hello David, After reading your post stating your goals for the 2011 season I assumed that I would be at the top of your list for a refund from a package order from 3/5/2009. I'm still looking in my mailbox every day for that refund, just a reminder 30 days after my last post
 
#203 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I think by this time you know that the money is gone. Unfortunately, this happens all too often not only with agriculture but in all industries. As a retired law enforcement officer, I can echo what applepollinator said. File the complaint and if enough are filed both the state and the FBI will file criminal charges. The beauty of the federal charge is that the more complaints filed equal multiple counts. In addition, as a citizen, you do have the right to appear before a federal magistrate and swear out a federal complaint against the individual. It may not lead to an arrest warrant, but will generate a referral to a United States Attorney for review and consideration. If enough people do it, someone will take notice. It's the only way to get these folks off the street.
 
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