Dealings with Long Creek Apiaries

[piperspuppy]

Just wondering if anyone out there has dealt with Long Creek Apiaries in Parrotsville, TN. I'm having a really bad experience with them. He cashed my check and never sent the package bees. Besides the BBB of Eastern TN, what would be my best avenue to get my money back?

[USCBeeMan]

Small claims court. But it's call Chancery court in TN.

[piperspuppy]

Thanks for the info. I've emailed the beekeepers assoc. pres. down there hoping to apply a little pressure, filed a complaint with the Fed Trade Comm, filed a complaint with the BBB, and tomorrow I'm calling the Russian Honeybee Breeders Assoc. along with the consumer protection agency. My nephew groaned when I told him that I was dealing with this guy.. he had the same problem with him last year.

Wouldn't I have to get a lawyer to go to court? Would it be worth it for the $400.00 I've got tied up with the packaged bees? I'll call the court house tomorrow and see how I go about filing. Thanks again and pass the word about Long Creek.

[Camp9]

There not part of the russian assn any more.

Camp

[piperspuppy]

I'll have to check their website again because I think they are still claiming to be a Russian breeder. Just thought maybe the RBA could put some pressure on this guy.

[beyondthesidewalks]

Here in Texas you don't need a lawyer in small claims court. Technically, you don't ever need a lawyer but that doesn't work out too well for those who try it. My neighbor did a small claims suit himself with a local transmission house. Worked out well for him but it took FOREVER. Don't expect instant gratification from the court system.

I"ve always tried to pick up my bees at a local bee breeder of national fame. It's a long drive but I think it's worth it. It's better for the bees and you're sure to get your product when you pay.

I don't buy package bees anymore. All of my increase comes from swarms, cutouts and raising my own from splits. I think that is better for several reasons:

1) It's hard to get screwed out of money when it doesn't cost you money.

2) You get local queens/bees adapted to your area.

3) In the case of swarms and cutouts, you get feral bees that have been survivors to all that can harm the bees lately.

Not meaning to slam bee/queen breeders but I really don't understand why we don't breed our own bees. I think it works out better in the long run. I do understand that a commercial operation probably needs to buy packages but the small time hobbyist/sideliner really shouldn't. I also believe that Nucs are a much better deal in the long run.

[dcross]

http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...ighlight=creek

Still waiting for my queens that were supposed to ship a year ago.

I believe he joined the board as beemaster01 to explain how the weather was the culprit...

[bnatural]

Wow. I got two packages from them last year. They were late, weather was blamed, but they built up into three deeps, overwintered the best of my hives and are the only ones to produce any honey so far this very wet summer.

Just received four queens from them last week as promised. All came marked and clipped (even though I did not ask for either). Queens are all very dark and seemed to be very healthy. Released them into the nucs yesterday. Will check in a few days to make sure they are laying.

Have found them pleasant to do business with. Sorry to hear others have had so many problems.

Bill

[piperspuppy]

You must be one of the lucky ones ! I know the Russian stock is great.. my brother has them and so does my nephew. Long Creek was on Beesourse as a breeder of Russians so that's why I went with them. When I told my Nephew he just groaned. He had dealt with them the year before and waited almost a year to get some of his money back and cut a deal with them for the rest in trade for queens. The nephew has hives he can split.. I didn't have that luxury. Between my brother, myself and the nephew we have about 65 hives, so we aren't really backyard beekeepers.

I've got a call into my lawyer. We'll see where it takes me.

The guy was nice enough... just too many excuses to suit me and when I asked for my money, it was no problem until I never received a check then things got a little testy. That's when I got the BBB involved.

[piperspuppy]

We do alot of "house calls" and swarm pickups. Contracted with Terminx if they get a call we go out. Have quite a few hives and the ferrals do a dandy job for us. Just wanted to get some Russian stock and he was listed as a breeder in Bee Source.

[piperspuppy]

I like your quote there! I think I have the number for the Russian Bee Breeders Assoc. Going to be contacting them to see if we can't use them to put some pressure on this guy. Then there's my lawyer who will be in contact with him.

[piperspuppy]

I have contacted the Consumer Protection Agency and have filed a complaint against Long Creek Apiaries and David Winters owner. Would you be willing to file a compalint also? It looks like he's falsely advertizing himself as a Russian Bee Breeder belonging to the Assoc. That will get him trouble with this agency along with the Federal Trade Comm. I've also filed a complaint there too. Talked to the President of the Russian Honeybee Breeders Assoc. today and he said he was glad someone is going after this guy. He wouldn't comment further except that he was no longer a part of the Assoc. because of his dealings. Told me to "go girl" and that's what I intend to do.

[Sundance]

If you mailed the check you may be able to
use the USPS as it is construed as mail fraud.
Contact your post master.

Also...... Add their name to the "tags" for the
thread and it will be more likely to show up in
Google searches (I think)

[piperspuppy]

Not sure how to use the tag to add him to it. I'll have to go down to the Post Office in the morning and see what the Post Master has to say. Thanks for the tip I have all the time in the world to be a pain in this guys back side... he should have sent me back my money like he said he would, and I would have given him a thumbs up and there would be no problem, but nooooooo, he had to go and tick me off. I've read some of his posts along with others that have had good and bad dealings with him. I suppose I'm one of those "hot heads out there" trying to ruin his reputation. All I can say is let the agencies out there be his judge and jury and I will rest my case. Thanks again for the tip.

[Charlotte]

I also had very bad dealings with this place. Finally got my bees late, only after I unrelentlessly called this guy morning, noon & night. I really think the ONLY reason I got them was because I kept hounding this guy. Sorry to hear about your bad luck. They won't ever have business from me again. As far as the bees go, they built up ok, but my queen seems to lay a lot more drones than I like & they are alittle more aggressive. I did not get any honey off them, as I received them pretty late. I am satisfied that they will have enough to overwinter. Hopefully next year they will do well...

[piperspuppy]

Well, I've filed with the Consumer Protection Agency there a few weeks ago and haven't heard any more from them. Did get an opportunity to talk to the Pres. of the Russian Honeybee Breeders Assoc about them and he was't too happy with him either. Not much he could do since Long Creek is not a part of that organization. I'm filing with the USPS soon... mail fraud. Not sure how he stays in business doing the kind of business he does. Had the PA state bee inspector here on Thurs checking my bees and told him about this dude and suggested that he doesn't run their add in the newsletter anymore... so, that will be one source he won't be able to advertise in. Wish we could get Besource to pull his ad too. I ran into a young fella about 21 who dealt with him and was told that his bees would get to him next year and when this kid wanted a refund the guy told him to read the web site policy.. which claims no particular time frame that bees would be delivered and therefore didn't have to send them until next year "depending on the weather conditions" for next year. So, I've asked this kid to do what I've been doing .... filing complaints.. and just maybe we'll get noticed and Long Creek will have to cough up some money. You can bet that we won't be dealing with him anymore either or anyone else that we know that is after Russian stock. Glad your bees are doing okay for you... might want to keep checking those drone cells.. possibly looking for a replacement queen in the spring.

[Cedar Hill]

Some years back, had a very similar problem in the very vicinity where yours is coming from. My source of trouble (cashing my check and not sending the packages) was in the Smokey Mountain ....... Went through the same contacts you have, however the best one was the state's attorney general's office. Everything has to be sent in writing and in detail. Took a very long time but the fellow came through and the bees although much too late in the season, finally came. Turned out to be some of the very best bees I've had.

[piperspuppy]

I have also filed with the State's Atty General.. and you're right.. a lot of detail. I did this on line and in writting also. We have some Russian stock and I know how well they do, just wanted to get a few more hives of them, but after the dealings with this guy, I don't want them from him... just my money back to go elsewhere for them.

[beemaster01]

To all 1000+ readers of this thread: Please count the the number of different people on this thread that are complaining. FIVE! That is FIVE out of hundreds of satisfied customers. It is sad that FIVE people can have such influence with only one side of the story. There are others on the tread offering advice based on one side of the story. I have no complaints with them. Such is the double edge of the internet.

We took orders based on our projected capability determined by normal weather. We went from an extreme drought to a surplus in just a few months. Our quality standards demand that we determine that all bees that we ship are the best on the market. I am sorry that some of you feel that bees should be shipped on time irregardless of quality. They did exactly what you wanted them to do, then you bad mouth the company when the stock is bad! We will not intentionally ship bad stock. Period! All our policies are spelled out on our website address that is listed in our ads. Read it!

All I ask is that you have both sides of the story before you make a decision about a company. I do not feel that is unreasonable.

[BozoBee]

To all 1000+ readers of this thread: Please count the the number of different people on this thread that are complaining. FIVE! That is FIVE out of hundreds of satisfied customers.

Is this a number you can reference, hundreds of satisfied customers? I agree we should check both sides of the story. So here, if any if you satified costumers read this, please post....... we will gladly hear a postive response.

Of the 1000+ readers of this post, most are just looking for a few basic things: where to go/not go, what actions are taken if a problem arises, and if this problem has a pattern. I have no intention of buying from Long Creek not because of this post, but because they are out of my area. I will buy locally here in Montana. But what I have learned from this post is what options are availible to me if there is a problem. Not here to sink his business but to learn, like most of the 1000+ readers. And who knows, maybe a few of that magical number of 'hundreds of satisfied' customers learn as well.

I think the major error on Long Creek is what seems to be the complete failure to communicate with his customer base. If you cash someones check the very least you can do is inform them of the status of their order. Seriously, I don't blame them for filing fraud one bit. Long Creek could have simply sent a letter or email explaining the current situation, stuff like the status of their order, reasons for delays, an expected timeline because of the delays. But if the Vendor fails to produce such information, then it seems to me they are just being lazy. If you can't keep your customers informed and give them that second side of the story, it is your own fault for being a poor business person. A footnote on a page of the site is not activily taking care of your customers needs, it's a scapegoat.

And to reference the FIVE number, if a resturaunt had FIVE cases of salmonella, if a doctor had FIVE malpractice suits, or if you bought FIVE defective cars from the same dealer... how would you expect anyone to respond? Sure they may have had 'hundreds' of satisfied customers.... but what matters is how the business deals with it, actively.