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230K views 364 replies 85 participants last post by  Barry 
#1 ·
Just wondering if anyone out there has dealt with Long Creek Apiaries in Parrotsville, TN. I'm having a really bad experience with them. He cashed my check and never sent the package bees. Besides the BBB of Eastern TN, what would be my best avenue to get my money back?
 
#3 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Thanks for the info. I've emailed the beekeepers assoc. pres. down there hoping to apply a little pressure, filed a complaint with the Fed Trade Comm, filed a complaint with the BBB, and tomorrow I'm calling the Russian Honeybee Breeders Assoc. along with the consumer protection agency. My nephew groaned when I told him that I was dealing with this guy.. he had the same problem with him last year.

Wouldn't I have to get a lawyer to go to court? Would it be worth it for the $400.00 I've got tied up with the packaged bees? I'll call the court house tomorrow and see how I go about filing. Thanks again and pass the word about Long Creek.
 
#6 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Here in Texas you don't need a lawyer in small claims court. Technically, you don't ever need a lawyer but that doesn't work out too well for those who try it. My neighbor did a small claims suit himself with a local transmission house. Worked out well for him but it took FOREVER. Don't expect instant gratification from the court system.

I"ve always tried to pick up my bees at a local bee breeder of national fame. It's a long drive but I think it's worth it. It's better for the bees and you're sure to get your product when you pay.

I don't buy package bees anymore. All of my increase comes from swarms, cutouts and raising my own from splits. I think that is better for several reasons:

1) It's hard to get screwed out of money when it doesn't cost you money.

2) You get local queens/bees adapted to your area.

3) In the case of swarms and cutouts, you get feral bees that have been survivors to all that can harm the bees lately.

Not meaning to slam bee/queen breeders but I really don't understand why we don't breed our own bees. I think it works out better in the long run. I do understand that a commercial operation probably needs to buy packages but the small time hobbyist/sideliner really shouldn't. I also believe that Nucs are a much better deal in the long run.
 
#8 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Wow. I got two packages from them last year. They were late, weather was blamed, but they built up into three deeps, overwintered the best of my hives and are the only ones to produce any honey so far this very wet summer.

Just received four queens from them last week as promised. All came marked and clipped (even though I did not ask for either). Queens are all very dark and seemed to be very healthy. Released them into the nucs yesterday. Will check in a few days to make sure they are laying.

Have found them pleasant to do business with. Sorry to hear others have had so many problems.

Bill
 
#9 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

You must be one of the lucky ones ! I know the Russian stock is great.. my brother has them and so does my nephew. Long Creek was on Beesourse as a breeder of Russians so that's why I went with them. When I told my Nephew he just groaned. He had dealt with them the year before and waited almost a year to get some of his money back and cut a deal with them for the rest in trade for queens. The nephew has hives he can split.. I didn't have that luxury. Between my brother, myself and the nephew we have about 65 hives, so we aren't really backyard beekeepers.

I've got a call into my lawyer. We'll see where it takes me.

The guy was nice enough... just too many excuses to suit me and when I asked for my money, it was no problem until I never received a check then things got a little testy. That's when I got the BBB involved.
 
#10 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

We do alot of "house calls" and swarm pickups. Contracted with Terminx if they get a call we go out. Have quite a few hives and the ferrals do a dandy job for us. Just wanted to get some Russian stock and he was listed as a breeder in Bee Source.
 
#11 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I like your quote there! I think I have the number for the Russian Bee Breeders Assoc. Going to be contacting them to see if we can't use them to put some pressure on this guy. Then there's my lawyer who will be in contact with him.
 
#12 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I have contacted the Consumer Protection Agency and have filed a complaint against Long Creek Apiaries and David Winters owner. Would you be willing to file a compalint also? It looks like he's falsely advertizing himself as a Russian Bee Breeder belonging to the Assoc. That will get him trouble with this agency along with the Federal Trade Comm. I've also filed a complaint there too. Talked to the President of the Russian Honeybee Breeders Assoc. today and he said he was glad someone is going after this guy. He wouldn't comment further except that he was no longer a part of the Assoc. because of his dealings. Told me to "go girl" and that's what I intend to do.
 
#13 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

If you mailed the check you may be able to
use the USPS as it is construed as mail fraud.
Contact your post master.

Also...... Add their name to the "tags" for the
thread and it will be more likely to show up in
Google searches (I think:D)
 
#14 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Not sure how to use the tag to add him to it. I'll have to go down to the Post Office in the morning and see what the Post Master has to say. Thanks for the tip :) I have all the time in the world to be a pain in this guys back side... he should have sent me back my money like he said he would, and I would have given him a thumbs up and there would be no problem, but nooooooo, he had to go and tick me off. I've read some of his posts along with others that have had good and bad dealings with him. I suppose I'm one of those "hot heads out there" trying to ruin his reputation. All I can say is let the agencies out there be his judge and jury and I will rest my case. Thanks again for the tip.
 
#15 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I also had very bad dealings with this place. Finally got my bees late, only after I unrelentlessly called this guy morning, noon & night. I really think the ONLY reason I got them was because I kept hounding this guy. Sorry to hear about your bad luck. They won't ever have business from me again. As far as the bees go, they built up ok, but my queen seems to lay a lot more drones than I like & they are alittle more aggressive. I did not get any honey off them, as I received them pretty late. I am satisfied that they will have enough to overwinter. Hopefully next year they will do well...
 
#16 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Well, I've filed with the Consumer Protection Agency there a few weeks ago and haven't heard any more from them. Did get an opportunity to talk to the Pres. of the Russian Honeybee Breeders Assoc about them and he was't too happy with him either. Not much he could do since Long Creek is not a part of that organization. I'm filing with the USPS soon... mail fraud. Not sure how he stays in business doing the kind of business he does. Had the PA state bee inspector here on Thurs checking my bees and told him about this dude and suggested that he doesn't run their add in the newsletter anymore... so, that will be one source he won't be able to advertise in. Wish we could get Besource to pull his ad too. I ran into a young fella about 21 who dealt with him and was told that his bees would get to him next year and when this kid wanted a refund the guy told him to read the web site policy.. which claims no particular time frame that bees would be delivered and therefore didn't have to send them until next year "depending on the weather conditions" for next year. So, I've asked this kid to do what I've been doing .... filing complaints.. and just maybe we'll get noticed and Long Creek will have to cough up some money. You can bet that we won't be dealing with him anymore either or anyone else that we know that is after Russian stock. Glad your bees are doing okay for you... might want to keep checking those drone cells.. possibly looking for a replacement queen in the spring.
 
#17 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Some years back, had a very similar problem in the very vicinity where yours is coming from. My source of trouble (cashing my check and not sending the packages) was in the Smokey Mountain ....... Went through the same contacts you have, however the best one was the state's attorney general's office. Everything has to be sent in writing and in detail. Took a very long time but the fellow came through and the bees although much too late in the season, finally came. Turned out to be some of the very best bees I've had.
 
#18 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I have also filed with the State's Atty General.. and you're right.. a lot of detail. I did this on line and in writting also. We have some Russian stock and I know how well they do, just wanted to get a few more hives of them, but after the dealings with this guy, I don't want them from him... just my money back to go elsewhere for them.
 
#19 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

To all 1000+ readers of this thread: Please count the the number of different people on this thread that are complaining. FIVE! That is FIVE out of hundreds of satisfied customers. It is sad that FIVE people can have such influence with only one side of the story. There are others on the tread offering advice based on one side of the story. I have no complaints with them. Such is the double edge of the internet.

We took orders based on our projected capability determined by normal weather. We went from an extreme drought to a surplus in just a few months. Our quality standards demand that we determine that all bees that we ship are the best on the market. I am sorry that some of you feel that bees should be shipped on time irregardless of quality. They did exactly what you wanted them to do, then you bad mouth the company when the stock is bad! We will not intentionally ship bad stock. Period! All our policies are spelled out on our website address that is listed in our ads. Read it!

All I ask is that you have both sides of the story before you make a decision about a company. I do not feel that is unreasonable.
 
#20 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

To all 1000+ readers of this thread: Please count the the number of different people on this thread that are complaining. FIVE! That is FIVE out of hundreds of satisfied customers.
Is this a number you can reference, hundreds of satisfied customers? I agree we should check both sides of the story. So here, if any if you satified costumers read this, please post....... we will gladly hear a postive response.

Of the 1000+ readers of this post, most are just looking for a few basic things: where to go/not go, what actions are taken if a problem arises, and if this problem has a pattern. I have no intention of buying from Long Creek not because of this post, but because they are out of my area. I will buy locally here in Montana. But what I have learned from this post is what options are availible to me if there is a problem. Not here to sink his business but to learn, like most of the 1000+ readers. And who knows, maybe a few of that magical number of 'hundreds of satisfied' customers learn as well.

I think the major error on Long Creek is what seems to be the complete failure to communicate with his customer base. If you cash someones check the very least you can do is inform them of the status of their order. Seriously, I don't blame them for filing fraud one bit. Long Creek could have simply sent a letter or email explaining the current situation, stuff like the status of their order, reasons for delays, an expected timeline because of the delays. But if the Vendor fails to produce such information, then it seems to me they are just being lazy. If you can't keep your customers informed and give them that second side of the story, it is your own fault for being a poor business person. A footnote on a page of the site is not activily taking care of your customers needs, it's a scapegoat.

And to reference the FIVE number, if a resturaunt had FIVE cases of salmonella, if a doctor had FIVE malpractice suits, or if you bought FIVE defective cars from the same dealer... how would you expect anyone to respond? Sure they may have had 'hundreds' of satisfied customers.... but what matters is how the business deals with it, actively.
 
#22 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Communication is the biggest part of what's going on. I bought two packages in 08 from long creek, was told they couldn't ship until the spring of 09. Got my two packages this spring with no problems. After installing the packages I went to release the queens 5 days later, one queen was dead. I know that the chances that the queen dieing may have just been one of those things that wasn't long creeks fault or mine, but I wrote and asked just that question. I figured if they were having problems with a few queens they'd want to know, or at lease give me a their 2 cents worth. I never got a response. I think most problems with package producers is you have to have constant communcation, even on the small requests such as mine to remain in business. If it's too much of a pain, which dealing with the public is, then you better find another way to make money. Hope all of you, both sides can get together and work this out.

Camp
 
#23 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

This is the one detail with a lot of the negative postings about suppliers that I just don't understand. The common thread is a buyer sends a supplier money for a product, supplier keeps the money but doesn't deliver the goods for various (legitimate?) reasons. Note to vendors: Return the money if you can't deliver in a timely fashion!!! Don't suppliers understand that it's a double insult to not get the product AND to have your money kept by the vendor? :scratch:
 
#29 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

Yes!! or hold the check until your ready to ship.

Camp
I guess I'll step in to be a devil's advocate. I've used similar services many times to say that in this type of business nobody will hold your check until they are ready to ship. In fact, I know someone who gave couple thousands deposit to a contractor to build a porch and they showed up the next season, they showed up when it was convenient for them... I've been ordering my birds for three seasons now and you have to place your order well in advance and they charge you right away, not when they are ready to ship...Could be some kind of a deposit, but no, they want all of it, and then you have to wait and hope that mother nature will work in your favor and the chicks will hatch when you want them... I've used LCA this year too, funny enough I tried to find some feedback before I placed an order in Nov./Dec of 08 and there was nothing negative, except that someone was saying that that they did not get their order until the following year. And I still placed my order. And I've got my 2 packages in June, late, but I've got them. I was able to get in touch with them via phone and e-mail, not instantaneously though, but I did get the weather updates, and finally the bees arrived in a nice condition, I was really pleased. On the website they are saying "Refunds for canceled orders will be sent at the first possible date." I guess the interpretation of the 1st possible date can be stretched. :scratch:
At the end I can say that I would possible order from them again. There is a local big supplier around here and I don't know how they deal with the refunds, but they are not the most reliable either, and the quality of the bees I was told not the greatest, and when you call them to find out the status of the frame order (not even talking about the bees !) they say - "we don't know when our supplier will send them, couple weeks maybe."...How is that ? I guess the nature of a beekeeping business is such that you either use them or loose them, there is not that much competition going on, so they can do pretty much as they pleased, you are the one who needs them..Last year I was late with my order locally, so I had to drive 3 hours to Boston to get my bees last year, this year I bought from LCA and my neighbor (now I know where I can get it). But some locals will not even call you back, and if you want russian bees you are out of luck, because it is also hard to find someone who will want to ship them. So we take chances...:lookout:
 
#31 · (Edited)
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

btw, this is actually a law... you cannot cash a check unless the product is on its way.
I would like to see that law, because as far as I know there isn't one. I have a number of suppliers that I have to prepay before they even begin to process my order. I had to write a check for over $1,500 to Pratt Industries and wait for the check to clear before they would even schedule my order for production. Total time before I got my boxes, 5 weeks. It takes 3 to 4 weeks to get zippers if my supplier is out of them. I still have to prepay. Had to prepay over $5,000 to the fabric mill in order for them to schedule my fabric run for 5 weeks in the future.

I have people that send me a personal check for a suit or jacket and I hold the check until it ships. I have over $1,500 worth of bad checks that have been turned over to the collection agency this year. To expect a seller to hold your check until they ship is not realistic. Companies don't stay in business if they don't ship. Long Creek sounds like it has some problems and has obviously lost some business. A consumer who writes a bad check is awfully hard to collect from. Yes it is illegal but the DA has bigger fish to fry and the Post Office is after sellers that practice mail fraud not the little guy that writes a bad check and won't honor it.

By the way two of those checks are from Beesource members.

Well my rant is over with. :applause:
 
#33 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I could but I don't think it is good business and likely against the rules. I think they sent checks in good faith and later had economic hardships that caused the checks to be returned. Just wish I could get them to send the items back. Both have promissed to make good on the checks but need time because of job loss. But for the grace of god go I.
 
#34 ·
Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

I could but I don't think it is good business and likely against the rules.
Maybe.... but it shouldn't be. Its ok to discuss a supplier that takes your money but doesn't deliver the goods. It would seem like it should be ok to do the same for folks who take the merchandise but don't pay..or are unwilling return the goods.
I think they sent checks in good faith and later had economic hardships that caused the checks to be returned. But for the grace of god go I.
You sound like you're a good hearted fellow. Best of luck to ya.
 
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