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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Tunkhannock, Pa USA
    Posts
    25

    Default Dealings with Long Creek Apiaries

    Just wondering if anyone out there has dealt with Long Creek Apiaries in Parrotsville, TN. I'm having a really bad experience with them. He cashed my check and never sent the package bees. Besides the BBB of Eastern TN, what would be my best avenue to get my money back?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Murfreesboro, TN, USA
    Posts
    1,398

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Small claims court. But it's call Chancery court in TN.
    De Colores,
    Ken

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Tunkhannock, Pa USA
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Thanks for the info. I've emailed the beekeepers assoc. pres. down there hoping to apply a little pressure, filed a complaint with the Fed Trade Comm, filed a complaint with the BBB, and tomorrow I'm calling the Russian Honeybee Breeders Assoc. along with the consumer protection agency. My nephew groaned when I told him that I was dealing with this guy.. he had the same problem with him last year.

    Wouldn't I have to get a lawyer to go to court? Would it be worth it for the $400.00 I've got tied up with the packaged bees? I'll call the court house tomorrow and see how I go about filing. Thanks again and pass the word about Long Creek.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    UP michigan
    Posts
    214

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    There not part of the russian assn any more.

    Camp
    As wonderful as this life is, there are days I really look forward to the next. :)

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Tunkhannock, Pa USA
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    I'll have to check their website again because I think they are still claiming to be a Russian breeder. Just thought maybe the RBA could put some pressure on this guy.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Barry, TX USA
    Posts
    861

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Here in Texas you don't need a lawyer in small claims court. Technically, you don't ever need a lawyer but that doesn't work out too well for those who try it. My neighbor did a small claims suit himself with a local transmission house. Worked out well for him but it took FOREVER. Don't expect instant gratification from the court system.

    I"ve always tried to pick up my bees at a local bee breeder of national fame. It's a long drive but I think it's worth it. It's better for the bees and you're sure to get your product when you pay.

    I don't buy package bees anymore. All of my increase comes from swarms, cutouts and raising my own from splits. I think that is better for several reasons:

    1) It's hard to get screwed out of money when it doesn't cost you money.

    2) You get local queens/bees adapted to your area.

    3) In the case of swarms and cutouts, you get feral bees that have been survivors to all that can harm the bees lately.

    Not meaning to slam bee/queen breeders but I really don't understand why we don't breed our own bees. I think it works out better in the long run. I do understand that a commercial operation probably needs to buy packages but the small time hobbyist/sideliner really shouldn't. I also believe that Nucs are a much better deal in the long run.
    When you stop learning you're dead.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Tunkhannock, Pa USA
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    I like your quote there! I think I have the number for the Russian Bee Breeders Assoc. Going to be contacting them to see if we can't use them to put some pressure on this guy. Then there's my lawyer who will be in contact with him.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bristol,MA,USA
    Posts
    719

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Some years back, had a very similar problem in the very vicinity where yours is coming from. My source of trouble (cashing my check and not sending the packages) was in the Smokey Mountain ....... Went through the same contacts you have, however the best one was the state's attorney general's office. Everything has to be sent in writing and in detail. Took a very long time but the fellow came through and the bees although much too late in the season, finally came. Turned out to be some of the very best bees I've had.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Tunkhannock, Pa USA
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    I have also filed with the State's Atty General.. and you're right.. a lot of detail. I did this on line and in writting also. We have some Russian stock and I know how well they do, just wanted to get a few more hives of them, but after the dealings with this guy, I don't want them from him... just my money back to go elsewhere for them.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Cocke County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    70

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    To all 1000+ readers of this thread: Please count the the number of different people on this thread that are complaining. FIVE! That is FIVE out of hundreds of satisfied customers. It is sad that FIVE people can have such influence with only one side of the story. There are others on the tread offering advice based on one side of the story. I have no complaints with them. Such is the double edge of the internet.

    We took orders based on our projected capability determined by normal weather. We went from an extreme drought to a surplus in just a few months. Our quality standards demand that we determine that all bees that we ship are the best on the market. I am sorry that some of you feel that bees should be shipped on time irregardless of quality. They did exactly what you wanted them to do, then you bad mouth the company when the stock is bad! We will not intentionally ship bad stock. Period! All our policies are spelled out on our website address that is listed in our ads. Read it!

    All I ask is that you have both sides of the story before you make a decision about a company. I do not feel that is unreasonable.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Bozeman, MT, USA
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Quote Originally Posted by beemaster01 View Post
    To all 1000+ readers of this thread: Please count the the number of different people on this thread that are complaining. FIVE! That is FIVE out of hundreds of satisfied customers.
    Is this a number you can reference, hundreds of satisfied customers? I agree we should check both sides of the story. So here, if any if you satified costumers read this, please post....... we will gladly hear a postive response.

    Of the 1000+ readers of this post, most are just looking for a few basic things: where to go/not go, what actions are taken if a problem arises, and if this problem has a pattern. I have no intention of buying from Long Creek not because of this post, but because they are out of my area. I will buy locally here in Montana. But what I have learned from this post is what options are availible to me if there is a problem. Not here to sink his business but to learn, like most of the 1000+ readers. And who knows, maybe a few of that magical number of 'hundreds of satisfied' customers learn as well.

    I think the major error on Long Creek is what seems to be the complete failure to communicate with his customer base. If you cash someones check the very least you can do is inform them of the status of their order. Seriously, I don't blame them for filing fraud one bit. Long Creek could have simply sent a letter or email explaining the current situation, stuff like the status of their order, reasons for delays, an expected timeline because of the delays. But if the Vendor fails to produce such information, then it seems to me they are just being lazy. If you can't keep your customers informed and give them that second side of the story, it is your own fault for being a poor business person. A footnote on a page of the site is not activily taking care of your customers needs, it's a scapegoat.

    And to reference the FIVE number, if a resturaunt had FIVE cases of salmonella, if a doctor had FIVE malpractice suits, or if you bought FIVE defective cars from the same dealer... how would you expect anyone to respond? Sure they may have had 'hundreds' of satisfied customers.... but what matters is how the business deals with it, actively.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    UP michigan
    Posts
    214

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Communication is the biggest part of what's going on. I bought two packages in 08 from long creek, was told they couldn't ship until the spring of 09. Got my two packages this spring with no problems. After installing the packages I went to release the queens 5 days later, one queen was dead. I know that the chances that the queen dieing may have just been one of those things that wasn't long creeks fault or mine, but I wrote and asked just that question. I figured if they were having problems with a few queens they'd want to know, or at lease give me a their 2 cents worth. I never got a response. I think most problems with package producers is you have to have constant communcation, even on the small requests such as mine to remain in business. If it's too much of a pain, which dealing with the public is, then you better find another way to make money. Hope all of you, both sides can get together and work this out.

    Camp
    As wonderful as this life is, there are days I really look forward to the next. :)

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Riner, Va
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Quote Originally Posted by beemaster01 View Post
    To all 1000+ readers of this thread: Please count the the number of different people on this thread that are complaining. FIVE! That is FIVE out of hundreds of satisfied customers. It is sad that FIVE people can have such influence with only one side of the story. There are others on the tread offering advice based on one side of the story. I have no complaints with them. Such is the double edge of the internet.

    We took orders based on our projected capability determined by normal weather. We went from an extreme drought to a surplus in just a few months. Our quality standards demand that we determine that all bees that we ship are the best on the market. I am sorry that some of you feel that bees should be shipped on time irregardless of quality. They did exactly what you wanted them to do, then you bad mouth the company when the stock is bad! We will not intentionally ship bad stock. Period! All our policies are spelled out on our website address that is listed in our ads. Read it!

    All I ask is that you have both sides of the story before you make a decision about a company. I do not feel that is unreasonable.

    Seems like the logical solution would be to simply return the persons money if you don't have the bees. Why would that be such a hard thing to do? It would save you from having to scramble to put some packages together and would save the buyer from having to post their bad dealings with you for 1,000's of people to read.

    With today's internet outlets and forums news of bad dealings spread like wildfire. I would gladly refund one persons money instead of having 1,000's more potential buyers read of this dealing.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,393

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    This is the one detail with a lot of the negative postings about suppliers that I just don't understand. The common thread is a buyer sends a supplier money for a product, supplier keeps the money but doesn't deliver the goods for various (legitimate?) reasons. Note to vendors: Return the money if you can't deliver in a timely fashion!!! Don't suppliers understand that it's a double insult to not get the product AND to have your money kept by the vendor?
    Regards, Barry

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,393

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Quote Originally Posted by beemaster01 View Post
    All our policies are spelled out on our website address that is listed in our ads. Read it!
    When I read your policies, it feels to me that the buyer assumes the lions share of the risk. I understand that you deal with customers that you will never see face to face, but a consumer always wants to feel the vendor/supplier holds some, if not the larger, portion of the risk of doing business. I do residential remodeling. I often don't bill the client till the job is finished. I assume the risk and trust that a client will be more than willing to pay for a job well done. This requires a lot of communication during the job to make sure we are all on the same page. In all the years I've worked this way, at most, I've "lost" a few hundred dollars. I acquire satisfied customers that do repeat business and they recommend me to all their friends. Just some food for thought.
    Regards, Barry

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Tunkhannock, Pa USA
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    I also run a small business and I know your customer comes "first" and satisfied customers are repeat customers. I wonder how many repeat customers Long Creek has. Maybe I should post and ask

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Kiel WI, USA
    Posts
    2,368

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    Quote Originally Posted by beemaster01 View Post
    We took orders based on our projected capability determined by normal weather.

    I am sorry that some of you feel that bees should be shipped on time irregardless of quality.


    I placed my order in early Aug. of '08 and was told that my queens would ship the following week. How on earth can the weather delay them by over A YEAR?

    How about the refund I was promised in fall of '08? Is the bad weather holding that up as well?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Stewart, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    29

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    [QUOTE=beemaster01;462601]To all 1000+ readers of this thread: Please count the the number of different people on this thread that are complaining. FIVE! That is FIVE out of hundreds of satisfied customers. It is sad that FIVE people can have such influence with only one side of the story. There are others on the tread offering advice based on one side of the story. I have no complaints with them. Such is the double edge of the internet.

    Somewhere I read statistics years ago that to make up for the damage that 1 unhappy customer can do you have to make over 200 new customers to replace the revenue. This was in the day before the internet. So I truly hope you did and do have 1000+ happy customers you will need them. My experience with customer service has been where there is smoke there is fire.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Forrest City, Ar
    Posts
    45

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiary

    I almost bought a package of bees from LCA rather late in the season, but the tone of the email put me off, when I asked if they still had bees for sale. I did however buy from another supplier in TN and have been very happy with thier bees and service. I will email and ask questions often, and they are more than helpful. They were inspected and had no pest problem either.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Walnut Grove, MO
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Dealings with Long Creek Apiaries

    If anyone has any idea how to take actual legal action against LCA that won't cost an arm and a leg, please let me know. I'm from Missouri and so far the only recourse has been the BBB, who can't do anything and the Department of Commerce and Insurance through the Tennessee Division of Consumer Affairs who can't force Winters to do the right thing. I am super frustrated and really angery about this. He owes me over $700.00.

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