Vermont Photos

[deknow]

We traveled to Vermont to visit Kirk Webster and Mike Palmer after the conference with Erik Osterlund and Mike Bush. Here are some photos from the trip.

http://picasaweb.google.com/Dean.Ram...erenceAndAfter

deknow

[MWillard]

Thanks for sharing photos of your trip. It's great to see. As a side note, I'm also trying Mike's double nuc box with a split super this year.

[winevines]

i am deleting all of my posts on this. You win deknow

[deknow]

i have no knowledge of anyone on beesource with any kind of grant, so it was not personal to anyone here.

with that said, i've seen some of these SARE grants, and many are silly (and include grants that some of my friends have recieved).....a sare grant to study top entrances...a sare grant to try to overwinter bees indoors so that early northern package bees can be shaken out...a sare grant to determine the best way to introduce a russian queen into an italian colony are some examples off the top of my head. a successful beekeeper has resources (by definition), and will steer some of those resource towards improving things.

these are the kinds of things beekeepers should be doing as part of being beekeepers...experementing and finding improvements.

i have no idea what you are doing with nucs...and i'd be curious to hear what you have learned with your grant....is it something new?

deknow

[Maine_Beekeeper]

I think any USDA funds directed towards beekeeping, whether educational, research, demonstration or otherwise is GREAT. "silly" or not, beekeepers need to be working on new ways to keep our bees healthy.

Yes, I have a SARE project, the synopsis is here:
http://nesare.org/get/farmers-exampl...ted-colon.html

-E.

[deknow]

well, my jaw is agape.

1. the idea that an unqualified _any_ grant towards beekeeping is good is ridiculous for any number of reasons.

2. (and forgive me, i didn't bring it up), $10,000 to determine if locally produced northern nucs do better than imported packages? there is an obvious answer to the question, and there is no reason the usda should spend 10k looking at this. you know it works better, and it's the direction you would have gone in regardless of if you got the grant or not....am i correct? i don't blame you, but i think it's a silly thing for the govt to spend money on, and i don't think they should spend money in this way. why should the usda pay for you to make up nucs? making up nucs is profitable!

in any case, i wasn't looking for an argument here...this is in response to a caption on a photograph. apologies if it doesn't belong here.

deknow

[Maine_Beekeeper]

Deknow:

Are you serious? Do you actually think this is not worthwhile?

How to you propose to demonstrate to your local beekeeping community that (more expensive) overwintered nucs are preferable to (less expensive) packages?

At least 90% of new colonies started in Maine at this time are package started. How else would you propose to spread the word?

I am not making up nucs with the grant colonies. I am tracking the health/disease load/mite load/ wintering success of the colonies and reporting results through our State Association Newsletter as well as through presentations and talks to regional clubs.

Currently the three strongest in my group consist of two packages and one nuc. The two weakest are one nuc start and one package start.

We'll see what happens through the winter.

I am disappointed that you seem to think $10k is ridiculous for the project. Do the math - $10k bought 24 hives worth of two deep and two medium equipment plus 16 packages and 8 overwintered nucs. There is also about $1200 for "expert consultants" to come and inspect the colonies (two Master Beekeepers for two days each, travel included), some money for feeding the colonies and about $500 total for mileage for the two major participants (myself being one) to and from the bee yards (which are outside of our own apiaries to elimintate the possiblility of interference from the home colonies. ) Our time is uncompensated in this project.

I welcome your efforts to increase awareness of positive trends in beekeeping and honey bee management. I hope you will respect the efforts of others, including mine.

-Erin

[Beeslave]

Our goverment run USDA is handing out free money for beekeepers to be beekeepers? I can't wait to tell my carpenter friends that maybe they could get some free money to buy a bunch of hammers to see which ones will fit there business best. Sounds like wasteful gov. spending to me. If I understand this correctly the gov. is paying for you to do what has already been done many years over( by beekeepers being bekeepers)? If the money was for finding a cure for CCD, Mites, Nosema, etc. I would understand. But it is not. You say your time is not compensated but you got 24 hives that should be producing honey?

[winevines]

deleted by me. you win deknow. go hang out with the commercial guys

[JBG]

Nice set of photos and lots of 'em. Informative too. Keep them coming and Tx for the posting.

[Natalie]

You have to admit that some of these grants are just plain ridiculous and I could see how some people are going to take advantage of them for personal gain.
I don't think the government should be spending money on these grants given the kind of debt this country is already in, especially if the beekeeper is going to benefit personally from them.

Are you saying those 24 colonies are not producing honey? Or won't be split?
So when this study is done who keeps all these bees/hives?
It seems that alot of the methods that are revolutionizing beekeeping today and making it more sustainable are done by people on their own, on their own time and their own money with no monetary benefit.

By the way I do not see $10,000 as "a tiny little grant either" and could be put to better use given the shape we are in, but the government is notorious for misusing funds.
Add up all these "tiny little grants" and see where we are at.

quote from whitevines"
The queen breeder he gets his queens from also has a SARE grant, a very small little grant, but one that keeps him motivated enough to keep trying to rear a better local queen. Still think these small SARE grants are a waste of money? end quote"

Money is a great motivator isn't it?
I am more impressed by all the beekeepers who are doing all this on their own because they are passionate about what they do not because they would give up except they got a grant so they keep plugging along.
He wants to produce a better local queen but only if he can get it funded?

There are plenty of people who are doing this already without grants and they don't feel they are doing the world a favor as the tone here suggests.

[winevines]

We traveled to Vermont to visit Kirk Webster and Mike Palmer after the conference with Erik Osterlund and Mike Bush. Here are some photos from the trip.

http://picasaweb.google.com/Dean.Ram...erenceAndAfter

deknow

BTW, the photos are a treasure trove- espcially the ones of overwintering nuc designs. I know it can take a while to upload and caption. Thanks for sharing.

[Barry Digman]

I always enjoy seeing photos of the folks who are hands-on making stuff happen. And it's nice to see a face matched with a name. You all keep up the good work.

[berkshire bee]

Great photos, and it looks like it ws also a great learning experience

[bleta12]

Pictures were great and I liked all of them.

I am very surprised that any beekeeper have a problem with the Sare grant given to another beekeeper to do a study on an essential question, local stock vs. packages from far away.

Beekeeping industry is so underestimated and underfunded that we should applaud every dollar that goes to studding bees.
Instead of complaining why those beekeepers don't get theirs hand dirty and try to get a grant of their own and have a study of their own?
Probably because complaining is easy.

Gilman

[Chef Isaac]

what is this pic of?

http://picasaweb.google.com/Dean.Ram...73741772190098

is there a queen in both nucs?

[winevines]

Pictures were great and I liked all of them.

I am very surprised that any beekeeper have a problem with the Sare grant given to another beekeeper to do a study on an essential question, local stock vs. packages from far away.

Beekeeping industry is so underestimated and underfunded that we should applaud every dollar that goes to studding bees.
Instead of complaining why those beekeepers don't get theirs hand dirty and try to get a grant of their own and have a study of their own?
Probably because complaining is easy.

Gilman

Thanks Gilman. Some of your own photos have helped educate me and what we are doing down in VA.

[Chef Isaac]

great pictures. What a lovely time to see them as I sit back with a hot cup of coco

[Michael Palmer]

what is this pic of?

http://picasaweb.google.com/Dean.Ram...73741772190098

is there a queen in both nucs?

Double nuc box with 4 frame super above each. Yes, both have queens.

[deknow]

BTW, the photos are a treasure trove- espcially the ones of overwintering nuc designs. I know it can take a while to upload and caption. Thanks for sharing.

thank you karla, i knew that if i didn't do all this right away, that i wouldn't get to it until winter (or later).

the captioning is limited...it doesn't explain the systems that kirk and mike are using, and it doesn't show all of the equipment (most notably, the bottom board with the cleat divider is not shown). if you have heard either of them speak, or read their writings, the photos might help put a "face to the name".

deknow