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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Default Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    Here is some data:
    24-methylene cholesterol, also found in pollen, is the major sterol of the body tissue of adult queen and worker bees.
    But, they do not tell us how to get it into the bee by selecting the right oil or fat!
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Albuquerque, New Mexico
    Posts
    137

    Default Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    I remember being told that corn pollen is high in 24 methylene cholesterol. They remarked that it was all that corn pollen was good for.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Tip of the Thumb, Michigan
    Posts
    676

    Default Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    I've heard other beekeepers RAVE about Kevin Jester's BBread product!

    But, that's an aside... Microbes in the bee's gut is the primary reason I decided to go medication free in my bee yards. It stands to reason that if we nuke the digestive system of the bee with Terramycin and Fumidil-B, we're killing the "good" bacteria within their digestive systems. Without reintroducing the good bacterias back in, the bees can't possibly digest their food, and they become nutritionally deficient. And, this isn't taking into account the bacteria (yeasts) that pollen and bee bread needs to become edible!

    Dr. Diana Sammataro is currently (as of last spring) doing research on this very topic. It's been discovered that Lactobacillius is present in the digestive systems of honeybees. How to grow, or reintroduce Lactobacillus back into the hive and our bees, I feel, is an important piece of our puzzle.

    DS

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Southern Oregon
    Posts
    1,162

    Default Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    Glad to see this subject come up again. I brought the subject of probiotics and bees up a couple of years ago on Beesource and did not get that much traction so it is great to see the ABJ articles and some more discussion.

    I think this is an extremely important area of study and could result in changes in the way the industry feeds and uses antibiotics. The ability to colonize the bee hive and gut with beneficials could have major implications for bee nutrition and colony health whether it is better digestion and/or competitive inhibition of pathogens. Probiotics have a good track record in medicine and other forms of animal husbandry so I am looking forward to greater understanding and breakthroughs for apiculture.
    John B Jacob www.oldsolbees.com

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hughson, CA
    Posts
    153

    Default Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    Here is some data:
    24-methylene cholesterol, also found in pollen, is the major sterol of the body tissue of adult queen and worker bees.
    But, they do not tell us how to get it into the bee by selecting the right oil or fat!
    Ernie
    Canola oil is where you get the 24-methylene cholesterol. It was in one of Eric Mussens newsletters a couple of years ago.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,234

    Default Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Jarrett View Post
    ABJ artical on Microbes. If you get the abj Sqkcrk they have had a three part series on this.
    I'll have to get my hands on that issue. I haven't subscribed to the bee mags in a number of years. It cuts down on my recyclables.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Amador County, Calif
    Posts
    3,161

    Default Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    Well...

    Been adding lactic acid bacteria & bifidobacteria microbes to my sub for testing, ahh heck... if they all go tits up I'll just blame it on CCD.
    NUTRA-BEE feed supplements

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
    Posts
    1,303

    Default Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    Keith is that the Crazy California Diet?

    Jean-Marc

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,454

    Default Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    >How do we get a balance of microbial community within the hive.

    Don't feed sugar syrup. Stop treating with anything that upsets the pH. Stop treating with anything that is an antibiotic (TM, Tylosin, Fumidil etc.). Stop using essential oils which will also kill microbes. Stop treating with anything.

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmorethan.htm
    http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoursimplesteps.htm
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    Keith,

    Here's another product:
    MRM
    WHEY
    18 g Protein/ Serving
    TYPICAL AMINO ACID PROFILE PER 25.5 g SCOOP
    NAME mg/scoop
    ALANINE 800
    ARGININE 400
    ASPARTIC ACID 1910
    CYSTEINE 220
    GLUTAMIC ACID 3000
    L-GLUTAMINE 1000
    GLYCINE 400
    HISTIDINE 250
    ISOLEUCINE 1110
    LEUCINE 1630
    LYSINE 1540
    METHIONINE 330
    PHENYLALANINE 530
    PROLINE 1070
    SERINE 910
    THREONINE 1040
    TRYPTOPHAN 380
    TYROSINE 440
    VALINE 1040
    _____________________________________
    Table 1. Amino acid content of average pollen expressed as percent of crude protein
    CONSTITUENT Average pollen(crude protein, 26.3%)
    īpercent
    Arginine 5.3
    Histidine 2.5
    Isoleucine 5.1
    Leucine 7.1
    Lysine 6.4
    Methionine 1.9
    Phenyalalamine 4.1
    Threomine 4.1
    Trypotophane 1.4
    Valine 5.8
    ____________________________________-

    Comments,
    Ernie
    __________________
    Do it right the first time to save time, material and money.
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Milford, Indiana
    Posts
    70

    Default Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    I sent one post but due to computer issues it may never have gotten past my firewall.
    You folks focus on gut health is great. I've work for a duck company for 20 years and ducks like bees don't exactly have the pharma companies smothering us with research proposals. In the last 10 years we refocused our broadbased duck research to a more narrow focus on maintaining and improving gut flora and gut wall health. The research was cutting edge, but slow and expensive and only in the last 5 years has it really showed any real benefits, but now after all these years we are really seeing things improve. Bottom line (for ducks, and probably bees), If you can maintain a healthy gut flora and a good gut wall, many of your environmental, microbial challanges can be overcome. Good luck, many of your posts sound like our internal e-mails from 10 years ago.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hughson, CA
    Posts
    153

    Default Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Jarrett View Post
    Well...

    Been adding lactic acid bacteria & bifidobacteria microbes to my sub for testing, ahh heck... if they all go tits up I'll just blame it on CCD.
    Any updates? Kill any bees yet?

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    45,454

    Default Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    Another thing to consider. Perhaps the best way to restore proper microbes is to simply put a frame of pollen and brood (with bees) from a thriving hive in your failing hive. This will innoculate them with the microbes from the hive that is doing well.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hughson, CA
    Posts
    153

    Default Probiotics

    A recent probiotic study. More food for thought.

    https://rirdc.infoservices.com.au/downloads/09-120.pdf

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Default Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    A recent probiotic study.

    Thanks Matt for the good information!
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    If you can maintain a healthy gut flora and a good gut wall, many of your environmental, microbial challanges can be overcome.

    Are their any up-dated for bees in this area?
    Comments?
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  17. #37

    Default Re: Probiotics

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Beekman View Post
    A recent probiotic study. More food for thought.

    https://rirdc.infoservices.com.au/downloads/09-120.pdf
    Hum. Bacillus. Isn't that the same critter that turns booze into vinegar?
    The World Beehive Project - I build one of every popular beehive in the world!

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,234

    Default Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    A recent probiotic study.
    Ernie
    Isn't that a shampoo?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Re: Microbes in Nutrition

    Isn't that a shampoo?
    No.
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Lyons, CO
    Posts
    3,027

    Default Re: Probiotics

    Quote Originally Posted by Paraplegic Racehorse View Post
    Hum. Bacillus. Isn't that the same critter that turns booze into vinegar?
    That's acetobacter. Baccilus is a huge grouping of "bugs" with lots of members.
    Bees, brews and fun
    in Lyons, CO

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