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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    fwiw, the government does have the right to certify and/or license food processing facilities and food products.

    deknow
    Interesting concept, where in the constitution did the 'government' specifically get this 'right'. Government was formed to 'protect' our life liberty and pursuit of happiness. Common law is 'buyer be ware'. A license is permission to do that which without said license would be illegal. So let me get this, farmer raises his crop but can't sell or trade his product without a 'license' right.

    I certainly agree that the johnny come lately would have this attitude. They don't have any concept of what my ancestors did when they conquered this country and formed a completely different type of sovereignty, one in which the people were sovereign only under the Creator. Neither my ancestors nor do I give permission for this type of regulation. But Tyranny reigns for a while, till the people slap 'government' back into there place.
    Last edited by Barry; 07-27-2009 at 08:09 AM. Reason: uncivil
    "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country." Nathan Hale, 1776

  2. #22
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?


    unless you are producing all of your own food (save what you barter with others that also refuse to be licensed), and never, ever, ever, eat at a restaurant that is licensed, never ever, ever buy any kind of food at a store that has to be licensied, then you are supporting the system that you claim you and your ancestors don't support....you are helping to perpetuate it.

    personally, our facility has been inspected and licensed by both the state and our town (and are subject to federal inspection as well). it was a big pain. that said, when i go out to eat, or buy food (raw or processed), i'm happy that the producer is also licensed and inspected. not a guarantee of anything, but a step in the right direction.

    all things being equal (and they are not always equal), i'd buy from an inspected facillity before one that simply claimed "we don't need no stinking govt inspections". if one claimed (and could document) adhereing to a higher standard (or even a different one), that would be one thing, but simply, "the govt has no right to inspect" doesn't cut the mustard (or wouldn't when it comes to how i spend my money).

    as for your ancestors and your creator...that's your business. i can't imagine that i'd want my decendants 200-500 years from now "speaking for me", as i can't imagine that our perspectives would be anything close to similar. kind of like speculating what model of ipod my great great grandfather would buy.

    thankfully, we are not sovereign under anyone's creator, as i can't think of one that doesn't have the blood of innocents on his/her/it's hands....unapologetically.(edit here...i had put apologetically by mistake)

    if your house were burning down, would you prevent firefighters from entering your propertly to put it out? what if your neighbor refused to allow firefighters in, and the result was clear that your house would go down next? i don't remember reading anything in the constitution about firefighters, so therefore they should not exist (at least not as pubilc employees).

    So let me get this, farmer raises his crop but can't sell or trade his product without a 'license' right.
    it depends.

    deknow
    Last edited by deknow; 07-27-2009 at 11:00 AM.

  3. #23
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    Apr 2007
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    All kosher means is that a Jewish Rabbi blessed it.
    If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it. If you build it, they will fill it.

  4. #24
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    Mar 2007
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    Tompkins County, New York
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Quote Originally Posted by GRIMBEE View Post
    All kosher means is that a Jewish Rabbi blessed it.
    No. It means that a rabbi has inspected the facilities and even observed the processing. I described my processing to our local Chabad (very Orthodox) rabbi, and he said he would come watch and certify the honey.

    Kosher isn't just "abracadabra," but adherence to a strict set of rules that govern food processing and handling.

    Honey in of itself is kosher and, as someone else pointed out, it's the processing and handling that could make it unclean.

    No one has to get kosher certification, so those of you who are afraid that it will inspire the government to some battering how your honey house door, chill. If you don't want to sell to the observant Jewish community, don't. Shrug.
    My beekeeping blog: The Bee Yard

  5. #25
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    Fairfield, Connecticut
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    If it isn't broken, don't try to fix it. If you build it, they will fill it.

  6. #26
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    Apr 2003
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    Falconer, NY
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Not much of a Jewish population in this neck of the woods.... but there are a lot of Catholics..... And.... I do have a brother in law that’s a priest......so.... you guys got me thinking.... if I get him to come over and bless my honey could I get more $$$$ for it? Yes that’s it! Ill get a corner on the catholic honey market! I bet he'd do it for a home cooked meal and a couple of cold brewskies. Might have to let him sit in my lazy boy during a Steelers game too.....Still pretty cheep, as I don’t know no Rabbis....

    Sorry Chef..... It just seemed this thread was getting a little out there and I thought I should add to it.....

  7. #27
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    Jun 2008
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    Millersville, Maryland
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Shoot, I have customers, every now and then, who ask if the honey in the jar is REAL Honey. So, I'm not surprised about someone asking about whether Chef's honey is Kosher or not.

    I'm not a food purist but depending where you get your honey, there is a chance that it isn't actually honey. China for example has been caught selling syrupy liquids as honey (not actually honey). At least one large scale American honey distributor has been caught selling smuggled honey (from China). Because of the low cost, there is a financial incentive to buy and sell these potentially hazardous products.

    China has also been caught selling contaminated honey.

    http://www.seattlepi.com/local/394053_honey30.asp

    This has all been in the press so it's no wonder people ask if it's "real honey". Frankly, when I see honey on the shelf at the local grocery store, I sometimes wonder the same thing.

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truchaos View Post
    China for example has been caught selling syrupy liquids as honey (not actually honey).
    China is exporting a product called "Honey Syrup." It's a blend of sugar syrup and honey. If the product contains less that 50% honey, it can be called honey syrup. This allows Chinese honey exporters to escape paying the high duties on Chinese honey. I understand that much of the honey syrup is actually honey, and only labelled honey syrup. Just another example of the Chinese Gov't taking advantage of us.

  9. #29
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    Aug 2009
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    West Richland, Washignton USA
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    I think mormons have similar purchasing opinions. Kosher has nothing to do with the government.[/QUOTE]


    The only purchasing opinions mormons have is a personal opinion. We don't have any strict eccesiastcal guidlines for manufacturing. Maybe it should be up to the bees to get the Kosher stamp of approval since they are the ones doing all the manufacturing.

  10. #30
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    May 2008
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    Fresno California USA
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    Default Mormons

    I love driving through Utah and seeing the State Symbol, a bee hive.

  11. #31

    Default Maine Kosher Honey!

    The local Portland Orthodox Rabbi recently contacted me to purchase small gift size jars of honey to buy and then give as gifts for Rosh Hashana. (Jewish New Year which is traditionally celebrated with honey)
    He expressed interest in certifying my honey kosher and I said "sure!" (not a big Jewish population here in Maine but my step father is and his parents too, so I'm totally open to the idea.)
    The Rabbi came, inspected my extracting area (corner of kitchen), asked some very good questions about my bee management and honey extraction procedures, and certified us Kosher. From what he tells me we are the only certified Kosher honey produced in Maine.
    Not a big deal, no expense at all to me, and just gets the bee's word out there a little more.
    MP, I don't know if my Rabbi has jurisdiction over your area but I'd be happy to hook the two of you up, the kind of charges you are citing are pretty ridiculous, considering you are providing a major service in providing the local honey.
    You need a cooler Rabbi.
    Erin Forbes, EAS Master Beekeeper
    overlandhoney.com

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Maine Kosher Honey!

    Quote Originally Posted by Maine_Beekeeper View Post
    The Rabbi came, inspected my extracting area (corner of kitchen), asked some very good questions about my bee management and honey extraction procedures, and certified us Kosher. From what he tells me we are the only certified Kosher honey produced in Maine.
    Not a big deal, no expense at all to me, and just gets the bee's word out there a little more.
    Maine, this is the way it should be. You accommodating them for their cleanliness restriction, and them giving you approval without charging a 'tax' for the inspection. This benefited the Jewish population, knowing that they could now comsume your product without compromising their religious restrictions. It also educated you (thereby making you sensitive to their needs) concerning their limitations. This increases awareness on our part and serves to benefit the customer. Seems to me like both parties were out the time to do the inspection, and educational and beneficial to both parties. I justy hope that the Rabbi was not so accomodating only because of your relationship.
    "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country." Nathan Hale, 1776

  13. #33
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    May 2004
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    Indianapolis, Indiana, USA
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    Default Re: Maine Kosher Honey!

    I've been down in my back the past several months and just now saw this thread. Interesting indeed. I'm no kosher supervisor, but have friends who are. My honey does not have a hechsher(the kosher symbol) on it. Several year ago a local kosher supervisor in our community discussed my operation with me and said there was really no point in me going to the expense of official kosher certification. His reasons...honey is naturally kosher...I am very familiar with kashruth(the laws of keeping kosher)...with that I would not be doing things that might unintentionally render my product not-kosher. Interesting that honey is the only kosher food that comes from a non-kosher source! This honey thing used to come up quite a bit at the Wednesday night kashruth class. This is a good time for honey, with the high holy days starting this weekend.
    A fresh carrot is kosher by virtue of it being a vegetable....it doesn't need approval. my understanding is that the situation is similar with honey. It's already kosher...so if it comes from a reputable source, there should be no problem. Yet another reason to buy honey from your local producer instead of imported chinese honey from argentina!
    Just my two cents-worth, but when in doubt, consult your local orthodox rabbi.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    a word of caution here:

    although honey is a raw product that isn't not kosher, it can be handled in a way that it isn't (for instance, i would expect that if you or your help eats pulled pork sandwiches in the production space...even at a dedicated lunch table, that would be a problem).

    a rabbi can certainly look at your operation and deem it kosher, but actual certification is another issue all together, for that you need a certifiying agency, not just a rabbi...no matter how orthodox he may be.

    some will care about certification, some won't...but approval by a local rabbi is not certification, and you can't simply start advertising (or putting on the label) that your product is kosher.

    if you sell to a group or individual that wants a product that is certified kosher, and you tell them that yours is because a rabbi inspected it, you would not be telling the truth, and would be in a position of false advertising.

    i know of at least one kosher deli that was closed down for good because the truck the actual kosher meat was shipped on also had non kosher meat. by the rules of certification, this makes the kosher meat not kosher.

    this is a big potential market. if you don't think you can profit from being certified, then it isn't worth it.

    deknow

  15. #35
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    a word of caution here:deknow
    When I go to sale my Honey, I think I will put a label on my honey, which states, 'guaranteed kosher' according to the Bible. The rest can take it or leave it. How is that for your 'Kosher' certification tax.

    deknow seems like you promote contention instead of sensitivity to catering to the needs of those who prefer a so-called 'Kosher' product. From Merriam-Webster Dictionary "2 : being proper, acceptable, or satisfactory".

    deknow I will try to 'accommodate' any group whether they be Protestant, Catholic, Jew, Islamic, black, white, brown, yellow, pink or purple. But don't hold me captive to a 'tax' to sell my product.
    Last edited by DRUR; 09-16-2009 at 10:38 AM. Reason: add comment
    "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country." Nathan Hale, 1776

  16. #36
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    Feb 2009
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    Sebastopol, Ca.
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Quote Originally Posted by DRUR View Post
    When I go to sale my Honey, I think I will put a label on my honey, which states, 'guaranteed kosher' according to the Bible. The rest can take it or leave it. How is that for your 'Kosher' certification tax.
    So a couple thousand years of men arguing about any single line and the meaning is all taken easy by you to be pure, true, good and accurate? I don't think so. You going to follow all 647 laws of the OT? Or just think "good thoughts" of the New? And that is good enough? OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by DRUR View Post
    deknow seems like you promote contention instead of sensitivity to catering to the needs of those who prefer a so-called 'Kosher' product. From Merriam-Webster Dictionary "2 : being proper, acceptable, or satisfactory".
    So what is being proper, acceptable or satisfactory is it?
    Merriam-Webster only give the BASE definition of a word!


    Quote Originally Posted by DRUR View Post
    deknow I will try to 'accommodate' any group whether they be Protestant, Catholic, Jew, Islamic, black, white, brown, yellow, pink or purple. But don't hold me captive to a 'tax' to sell my product.
    I didn't know you were forced to pay a Rabbi, like the IRS.
    But then being free you are not forced to pay them either. AND you will get free room and board for five years!

    Not TO sorry, just a bit in a bad mood after reading stuff like this AND listening to the news. I think I will go out and look at my bees going in and out.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Quote Originally Posted by LenInNorCal View Post
    Not TO sorry, just a bit in a bad mood after reading stuff like this AND listening to the news. I think I will go out and look at my bees going in and out.
    Don't really get your point and apparently you didn't get mine. I certainly won't display the copyrighted "kosher" tax symbols on my honey, but if I want to advertise my honey as being 'kosher' (although notice I did not say 'certified'), I certainly will. But even if I want to state it is 'certified', I guess I can get any 'Baptist' preacher to do the so-called certification. And you are right, getting the copyrighted kosher certification is 'voluntary', but I suppose that certain industries pay this coerced 'tax' to the Jews under threat of boycott (although not overtly, but rather covertly).

    Also, take note, that this is no slander against the Jewish people as a whole, but like a few (probably a majority now) politicians that have risen to power positions (power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts), a few have tainted the perception of the whole, which I also find disgusting. Judge each man on his own merits, not on the merits of a group.

    My point Len is that We should strive to accommondate all, Why? Because it is just decency in dealings with our fellow man. But, then when that accommondation is converted in a manner that allows one group to take the labor of another group without significantly contributing to the production of the commondity, In my opionion, this is theft and coercion. And when you push against me, I will plant my feet, and if that doesn't work, you darn well better step back and start ducking, because I will take the offensive if you continue to try to steal my labor.

    GIVE ME LIBERTY, OR DEATH IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER FOR ONE OF US, AND WHETHER IT BE ME, I care not as I have stored up my treasures in a different place. Gayen Mitt Gott, Vaya Con Dios.
    "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country." Nathan Hale, 1776

  18. #38
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    Oct 2008
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    York County, Maine, USA
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    Lightbulb Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Things are certified kosher (or halall, or gluten free, etc.) to accommodate people that it is important to (for a number of reasons).

    For those people there is a value to it.

    Certification takes time, effort, and expertise.

    Time = $.

    Think about it another way - if you were deathly allergic to peanuts, would it be worth something to have the food you bought be certified as being peanut-free?

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Quote Originally Posted by dni View Post
    For those people there is a value to it. Certification takes time, effort, and expertise. Time = $.
    My exact sentiments, that is why I think they should be paying us about $10,000 per hour for them to come out and make sure that we are producing a Kosher product for their benefit.
    "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country." Nathan Hale, 1776

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