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  1. #1
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    Default Is Honey Kosher?

    I had a lady ask me and I did not know. I looked it up and it says honey is kosher. Does that mean I do not need certification?
    Chef Isaac..Culinary Arts and Honey are a sweet mix! http://www.sweetascanbeehoneyfarm.com & http://www.adoptahive.info

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    While giveing a "Bee tak" to an after school Jewish school the teacher told me that Honey in Kosher but I have read where it is not untill it is certified soooooo
    Ed, KA9CTT profanity is IGNORANCE made audible
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    I have a customer that requires the ingredients in their product be kosher. They waived the certification because their rabbi said that honey, as a natural product, is inherently kosher.

    Now, you can make it non-kosher by mishandling it.
    Diatomaceous earth filters can't be used...only strainers. Used milk bulk tanks can't be used. Other things too that I can't remember.

    There are different levels of Kosher. You have to check with your customer how far they want to take it. Some might want your products and premesis to be checked annually. Here, the fee was 3500 from the Brooklyn rabbi, or 1500 from the Montreal rabbi. Not just any rabbi can approve your certificate. They have to be in the group that performs the service.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    inherently speaking, honey is both kosher and halal....go figure

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    I read an article about rabbis that travel to China to certify kosher. It has alot to do with what your honey comes into contact with and how you process it. So it's not really about the honey, but how you process it and you have to have a rabbi come and certify it.

    On the other hand, I don't understand why someone would even ask. I mean really. Is there anything more pure than honey, of course, unless you hang pesticides, your bees frequent nasty pastures, on and on, you lick your fingers alot while processing! Frankly, I have a little trouble with that last one! (just kidding) soapy water is your friend.

    http://web.mac.com/thomja/iWeb/Site/...86947B09F.html

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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    There are different levels of Kosher. You have to check with your customer how far they want to take it. Some might want your products and premesis to be checked annually. Here, the fee was 3500 from the Brooklyn rabbi, or 1500 from the Montreal rabbi. Not just any rabbi can approve your certificate. They have to be in the group that performs the service.
    Those prices are ridiculous. Fact is any price is. You guys are opening yourself up to regulation. If Rabbi's can regulate your product and charge you why not the government. Tell them to raise there own or do without in no uncertain terms.
    "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country." Nathan Hale, 1776

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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Tad rude there.......

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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Quote Originally Posted by akbees View Post
    Tad rude there.......
    Wasn't meant to be. When we as beekeepers start giving a religious organization a foothold to "certify" or "license" our product, how do we argue that the government does not have the same right. We would scream bloody murder if the government were to charge $3,500.00 to 'license' our honey, and we sure better be doing the same for a religious group.
    "I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country." Nathan Hale, 1776

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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    DRUR:

    I would have to agree. Some many steps to just get a business and sell things. I hate paperwork. More paperwork=more money out of the pocket.
    Chef Isaac..Culinary Arts and Honey are a sweet mix! http://www.sweetascanbeehoneyfarm.com & http://www.adoptahive.info

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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    This is about kosher designation, nothing else. If you don't want to label it as kosher, then don't. This would only be if you wanted to add a chunk of change on it and sell it to the jewish population.

    It's the difference between Coca-Cola and Pepsi, one is Kosher and the other is not. It's purely personal choice and as a seller you can choose who you want to sell it to in this case.

    I think mormons have similar purchasing opinions. Kosher has nothing to do with the government.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Quote Originally Posted by DRUR View Post
    Wasn't meant to be. When we as beekeepers start giving a religious organization a foothold to "certify" or "license" our product, how do we argue that the government does not have the same right. We would scream bloody murder if the government were to charge $3,500.00 to 'license' our honey, and we sure better be doing the same for a religious group.
    I have to agree with akbees. If you choose to market a food product to the public then you need to accept the standards that the food industry has adopted. I had to take a certification class on food safety when I owned a restaurant. I paid for it and studied and passed the test because I chose to own a restaurant. I chose not to get kosher certification because my customers did not care about it. If I chose to market my shop and food to a community where it was important I would have done so. It is simply a financial decision. What do your customers want?

    by the way - i am sure there are lots of Jewish beekeepers. Being Jewish doesn't make your food product Kosher. In fact the standards for Kosher designation are even more strict for a Jew than for a non-Jew.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Quote Originally Posted by akbees View Post
    On the other hand, I don't understand why someone would even ask.
    Shoot, I have customers, every now and then, who ask if the honey in the jar is REAL Honey. So, I'm not surprised about someone asking about whether Chef's honey is Kosher or not.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    I read this in L. L. Langstroth's Langstroth's Hive and Honey-Bee

    -That honey is a vegatable product, was known to the ancient Jews, one of whose Rabbins asked: "Since we may not eat bees, which are unclean, why are we allowed to eat honey?" and replies: "Because bees do not make honey, but only gather it from plants and flowers."-

    I believe that is why honey is kosher... but i don't know for sure.
    To Each His Own

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    So, when they figure out that bees regurgitate nectar after or while adding an enzyme to it, will they change their mind?

    I wonder what makes bees unclean?

    Can larvae or pupae be kosher certified?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    From "Jewish Cooking" -

    Why is honey Kosher?

    The Mishna in Tractate Bechorot states:

    "That which comes from something which is Tameh [non-Kosher] is Tameh, and that which comes of that which is Tahor [Kosher] is Tahor." The product of a non-Kosher animal is not Kosher.

    So why is bee honey Kosher?

    The Talmud in the same Tractate quotes a Beraita (a Halachic teaching from the time of the Mishna) which says:

    "Why did they say that bee-honey is permitted? Because even though they bring it into their bodies, it is not a *product* of their bodies [it is stored there but not produced there]."

    All the Sages of the Mishna agree with this ruling. One of them, Rabbi Yaakov, disagrees with the *reasoning*. He claims that bee-honey is Kosher based on his interpretation of Vayikra 11:21. According to him, the verse prohibits one to eat a flying insect, but *not* that which is *excreted* from it.

    Maimonides codifies bee-honey as being Kosher, as does the Shulchan Aruch.

    You may wonder: How could one even think that bee-honey is not Kosher -- the Torah refers to the Land of Israel as "a Land flowing with milk and honey"! Certainly the Torah would not choose a non-Kosher product as a means for describing the beauty of the Land of Israel! This may come as a surprise, but the honey mentioned in the verse about "milk and honey" is not bee-honey -- rather it is fig-honey. The Talmud in Tractate Berachot tells us that another verse "It is a Land of wheat, barley, grapes, figs and pomegranates -- a Land of olives and *honey*" -- is referring to date-honey.

    Sources:

    * Tractate Bechorot, pages 5b, 7b.
    * The Codes of Maimonides, Laws of Forbidden Foods 3:3.
    * Shulchan Aruch, Yoreh Deah, 81:8.
    * Tractate Megillah, page 6a, Rashi.
    * Chumash, Book of Devarim, 8:8.
    * Tractate Berachot, page 41b, Rashi.

    http://www.jewishcooking.org/kosherfood/honey.html

    So from what I can find, yes, Honey in and of itself is Kosher.
    Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid. John Wayne

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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Ok, for the sake of argument, let's say that honey is Kosher. But... are your containers? Is your processing facility? Is the process itself? Is your processing proceedure Kosher? Are you and your employees 'clean'? A resounding answer will be - NO, not according to Kosher advocates. Your facility needs to be inspected by a certified rabbi (at your expense) to obtain the Kosher approval. They will give you the proceedures and how to 'unbless' so to speak, the equipment when you are processing something that is not Kosher. I looked into it for grins and quickly gave up. $$$$$$$$$$$$$ and then some more $$$$$$$$$$. All that said, Kosher products are preferred over 'organic' according to some market research I ran into. Kosher is a more desirable label than organic to many consumers. You may want to go that route, I don't and therefore will not compete with you.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Kosher means it is clean and not tainted with unlcean things.
    Bees are unclean. They do not hop. Read the books of Moses, the 3 first books of the Holy Bible.
    Honey is kosher, I am not sure why but since The LORD says so I think it is safe say so. By "The Lord says so" I mean by the many many references to it as a good thing to eat. Samson ate honey as did John the Baptist and also prophesies mention honey when talking of Christ Jesus. Christ means Messiah. Also the Promise Land was described as flowing with milk and honey.
    I am very sure it is known how bees make honey. Kosher/clean was originally designated by God in His Law. The extra books by the Jewish teachers came much much later and I believe complicated and changed some things that are very clear if they are just taken as God gave them and not in an attempt to find a way around them as we humans like to do.

    Any product not prohibited by God is kosher, without being certified, such as honey, beef, lamb, and so on, but to be Certified Kosher requires the process mentioned by Mr Bush.
    Also many Christians obey the dietary laws set out by God along with the Holy Days.

    Of course if you use a product that is prohibitted by God, unclean, in processing the honey then you would make the honey unclean. Just like if you dropped pork meat into beef you would not call the product clean/kosher.

    My answer to anyone asking if honey is kosher would be "yes all honey is kosher as long as it is kept pure, but I can not afford to be certified kosher". I would probably invite them to watch me process the honey.


    The money paid to the Orthodox Union or such is to receive their stamp marking it kosher. They inspect the product's ingredients and how it is processed. I do not think it is crazy if they want to charge to do this. It does open some large markets. It is not much different than getting Certified Organic, except it is based on religion, something not to bad to base things on.

    Cetified Organic costs lots

    I have not heard of a "blessing" that makes something kosher. It is not about blessing it is based on clean and unclean. You can not "unbless" something then use it on unclean things. God gives in the Bible the rules that govern containers and such that had anything unclean in them. They were to be washed, some cetain things were to be destroyed but those type containers are rarely used anymore.


    If you want to know all mentions of "Honey" in the Bible:
    Genesis 43:11 (KJV)
    And their father Israel said unto them, If it must be so now, do this; take of the best fruits in the land in your vessels, and carry down the man a present, a little balm, and a little honey, spices, and myrrh, nuts, and almonds:

    Exodus 3:8 (KJV)
    And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.

    Exodus 3:17 (KJV)
    And I have said, I will bring you up out of the affliction of Egypt unto the land of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, unto a land flowing with milk and honey.

    Exodus 13:5 (KJV)
    And it shall be when the Lord shall bring thee into the land of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee, a land flowing with milk and honey, that thou shalt keep this service in this month.

    Exodus 16:31 (KJV)
    And the house of Israel called the name thereof Manna: and it was like coriander seed, white; and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey.

    Exodus 33:3 (KJV)
    Unto a land flowing with milk and honey: for I will not go up in the midst of thee; for thou art a stiffnecked people: lest I consume thee in the way.

    Leviticus 2:11 (KJV)
    No meat offering, which ye shall bring unto the Lord, shall be made with leaven: for ye shall burn no leaven, nor any honey, in any offering of the Lord made by fire.

    Leviticus 20:24 (KJV)
    But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I am the Lord your God, which have separated you from other people.

    Numbers 13:27 (KJV)
    And they told him, and said, We came unto the land whither thou sentest us, and surely it floweth with milk and honey; and this is the fruit of it.

    Numbers 14:8 (KJV)
    If the Lord delight in us, then he will bring us into this land, and give it us; a land which floweth with milk and honey.

    Numbers 16:13-14 (KJV)
    Is it a small thing that thou hast brought us up out of a land that floweth with milk and honey, to kill us in the wilderness, except thou make thyself altogether a prince over us? [14] Moreover thou hast not brought us into a land that floweth with milk and honey, or given us inheritance of fields and vineyards: wilt thou put out the eyes of these men? we will not come up.

    Deut. 6:3 (KJV)
    Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.

    Deut. 8:8 (KJV)
    A land of wheat, and barley, and vines, and fig trees, and pomegranates; a land of oil olive, and honey;

    Deut. 11:9 (KJV)
    And that ye may prolong your days in the land, which the Lord sware unto your fathers to give unto them and to their seed, a land that floweth with milk and honey.

    Deut. 26:9 (KJV)
    And he hath brought us into this place, and hath given us this land, even a land that floweth with milk and honey.

    Deut. 26:15 (KJV)
    Look down from thy holy habitation, from heaven, and bless thy people Israel, and the land which thou hast given us, as thou swarest unto our fathers, a land that floweth with milk and honey.

    Deut. 27:3 (KJV)
    And thou shalt write upon them all the words of this law, when thou art passed over, that thou mayest go in unto the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee, a land that floweth with milk and honey; as the Lord God of thy fathers hath promised thee.

    Deut. 31:20 (KJV)
    For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant.

    Deut. 32:13 (KJV)
    He made him ride on the high places of the earth, that he might eat the increase of the fields; and he made him to suck honey out of the rock, and oil out of the flinty rock;

    Joshua 5:6 (KJV)
    For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the Lord: unto whom the Lord sware that he would not shew them the land, which the Lord sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey.

    Judges 14:8-9 (KJV)
    And after a time he returned to take her, and he turned aside to see the carcase of the lion: and, behold, there was a swarm of bees and honey in the carcase of the lion. [9] And he took thereof in his hands, and went on eating, and came to his father and mother, and he gave them, and they did eat: but he told not them that he had taken the honey out of the carcase of the lion.

    Judges 14:18 (KJV)
    And the men of the city said unto him on the seventh day before the sun went down, What is sweeter than honey? and what is stronger than a lion? And he said unto them, If ye had not plowed with my heifer, ye had not found out my riddle.

    1 Samuel 14:25-26 (KJV)
    And all they of the land came to a wood; and there was honey upon the ground. [26] And when the people were come into the wood, behold, the honey dropped; but no man put his hand to his mouth: for the people feared the oath.

    1 Samuel 14:29 (KJV)
    Then said Jonathan, My father hath troubled the land: see, I pray you, how mine eyes have been enlightened, because I tasted a little of this honey.

    1 Samuel 14:43 (KJV)
    Then Saul said to Jonathan, Tell me what thou hast done. And Jonathan told him, and said, I did but taste a little honey with the end of the rod that was in mine hand, and, lo, I must die.

    2 Samuel 17:29 (KJV)
    And honey, and butter, and sheep, and cheese of kine, for David, and for the people that were with him, to eat: for they said, The people is hungry, and weary, and thirsty, in the wilderness.

    1 Kings 14:3 (KJV)
    And take with thee ten loaves, and cracknels, and a cruse of honey, and go to him: he shall tell thee what shall become of the child.

    2 Kings 18:32 (KJV)
    Until I come and take you away to a land like your own land, a land of corn and wine, a land of bread and vineyards, a land of oil olive and of honey, that ye may live, and not die: and hearken not unto Hezekiah, when he persuadeth you, saying, The Lord will deliver us.

    2 Chron. 31:5 (KJV)
    And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.

    Job 20:17 (KJV)
    He shall not see the rivers, the floods, the brooks of honey and butter.

    Psalm 19:10 (KJV)
    More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.

    Psalm 81:16 (KJV)
    He should have fed them also with the finest of the wheat: and with honey out of the rock should I have satisfied thee.

    Psalm 119:103 (KJV)
    How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!

    Proverbs 24:13 (KJV)
    My son, eat thou honey, because it is good; and the honeycomb, which is sweet to thy taste:

    Proverbs 25:16 (KJV)
    Hast thou found honey? eat so much as is sufficient for thee, lest thou be filled therewith, and vomit it.

    Proverbs 25:27 (KJV)
    It is not good to eat much honey: so for men to search their own glory is not glory.

    Song 4:11 (KJV)
    Thy lips, O my spouse, drop as the honeycomb: honey and milk are under thy tongue; and the smell of thy garments is like the smell of Lebanon.

    Song 5:1 (KJV)
    I am come into my garden, my sister, my spouse: I have gathered my myrrh with my spice; I have eaten my honeycomb with my honey; I have drunk my wine with my milk: eat, O friends; drink, yea, drink abundantly, O beloved.

    Isaiah 7:15 (KJV)
    Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

    Isaiah 7:22 (KJV)
    And it shall come to pass, for the abundance of milk that they shall give he shall eat butter: for butter and honey shall every one eat that is left in the land.

    Jeremiah 11:5 (KJV)
    That I may perform the oath which I have sworn unto your fathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as it is this day. Then answered I, and said, So be it, O Lord.

    Jeremiah 32:22 (KJV)
    And hast given them this land, which thou didst swear to their fathers to give them, a land flowing with milk and honey;

    Jeremiah 41:8 (KJV)
    But ten men were found among them that said unto Ishmael, Slay us not: for we have treasures in the field, of wheat, and of barley, and of oil, and of honey. So he forbare, and slew them not among their brethren.

    Ezekiel 3:3 (KJV)
    And he said unto me, Son of man, cause thy belly to eat, and fill thy bowels with this roll that I give thee. Then did I eat it; and it was in my mouth as honey for sweetness.

    Ezekiel 16:13 (KJV)
    Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.

    Ezekiel 16:19 (KJV)
    My meat also which I gave thee, fine flour, and oil, and honey, wherewith I fed thee, thou hast even set it before them for a sweet savour: and thus it was, saith the Lord God.

    Ezekiel 20:6 (KJV)
    In the day that I lifted up mine hand unto them, to bring them forth of the land of Egypt into a land that I had espied for them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands:

    Ezekiel 20:15 (KJV)
    Yet also I lifted up my hand unto them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, flowing with milk and honey, which is the glory of all lands;

    Ezekiel 27:17 (KJV)
    Judah, and the land of Israel, they were thy merchants: they traded in thy market wheat of Minnith, and Pannag, and honey, and oil, and balm.

    Matthew 3:4 (KJV)
    And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.

    Mark 1:6 (KJV)
    And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;

    Rev. 10:9-10 (KJV)
    And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. [10] And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Quote Originally Posted by alpha6 View Post
    From "Jewish Cooking" -

    So why is bee honey Kosher?

    "Why did they say that bee-honey is permitted? Because even though they bring it into their bodies, it is not a *product* of their bodies [it is stored there but not produced there]."
    date-honey.
    Thanks for these references. I was going to look this up myself, as I recall researching it and finding similar citations. As you found out, according to Jewish law, honey IS considered kosher for these reasons you mentioned. What "the bible" says about honey and bees is sort of meaningless, as the rules of kosher are not in there directly.
    I would also like add my 2 cents that I have found beekeeping to be a lot like studying Judaism, LOTS of different "rules" and opinions based on interpretation and meaning.
    karla

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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Quote Originally Posted by winevines View Post
    Thanks for these references. I was going to look this up myself, as I recall researching it and finding similar citations. As you found out, according to Jewish law, honey IS considered kosher for these reasons you mentioned. What "the bible" says about honey and bees is sort of meaningless, as the rules of kosher are not in there directly.
    I would also like add my 2 cents that I have found beekeeping to be a lot like studying Judaism, LOTS of different "rules" and opinions based on interpretation and meaning.
    What the Bible says should be very relevant since the idea of kosher is based on the clean and unclean Laws. I agree that "kosher" has been expanded beyond what God gave, as I said. Such as God forbidding the boiling of a kid in it's mother's milk, while "kosher" requires no dairy products to be combined with meat.. though Abraham himself gave the two Angels meat and milk together in a meal. I think Jesus describes the problems very accurately.

    Mike

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    Default Re: Is Honey Kosher?

    Quote Originally Posted by DRUR View Post
    When we as beekeepers start giving a religious organization a foothold to "certify" or "license" our product, how do we argue that the government does not have the same right.
    uhhh, what we are talking about is a VOLUNTARY certification that can obtained in order to sell to a market that would otherwise be closed to your (or someone elses) product. there is nothing REQUIRED, there are no RIGHTS being given up.

    fwiw, the government does have the right to certify and/or license food processing facilities and food products.

    deknow

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