Queen paper combine

[ITstings]

Can you combine, a weak hive with a queen to a queen less hive using paper method. Will the queen less hive accept her? The hive we are trying to queen have not been able to raise or take care of the queen cells we have put in it. thank you for any help.

[brooksbeefarm]

Yes, i have done this many times. It helps if you spray the insides of both hives with 1 to 1 sugar water mixed with HBH or vanilla extract before you combine. If you are working with a weak hive and a queenless hive i would order a new queen to take over the hive after the combine. Jack

[gmcharlie]

If they have rejected or killed a queen already I would use a screen and leave it in place for at least 4 days..... the paper may not last long enough to stop the fighting.

[Loonerone]

How much vanilla - just a tiny drop? And just a very light spray? I need to spray a brood frame with nurse bees I am adding to a hive that has raised its own queen and has had no brood for a few weeks....

Thank you!

[NeilV]

Also, put the hive with the queen on top.

[wcubed]

Second NeilV's comment. (he beat me to it) There is a reason for that. The colony does not expect invasion from the top and are much more defensive internal to their unit and at their entry. The literature reports that when two queenright colonies are combined, over and under, the upper queen prevails 70% of the time. The recommendation is to select the preferred Q of the two and place that unit on the top to apply the odds.

The first time I tried the proposed fix of this thred, I was pretty sceptical. Waited three days for things to stabilize and checked. Found the girls from downstairs showing the queen from upstairs around in their empty brood nest. They hadn't put her to work yet, but she was getting a tour of the job.

Walt

[montanabee]

i have a similar issue, with one newly captured swarm that is doing well, but only one deep at this point. That I would like to combine with a package that just didn't have the energy this spring and appears to have lost the queen and now has a laying working(spotty egg pattern).
There is, what looks like a queen cell that they are working on, but then again, they were working on this last week too.

Can I just put the captured swarm hive on top in the evening? I don't have any newspaper here at the house. Would a paper back be too thick or would wrapping paper or something else work?
Do you have to find the laying worker or can you just put the queened hive body on top and cross your fingers?

[wcubed]

Finding the laying worker is out. Not only does she look like everybody else, but they come in bunches.
Never lost a Q in the colony supplemented by just shaking the bees of the laying worker colony off, frame by frame, in front of the colony. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen. But it is a quick way to combine. If the combination bee count crowds the queenright unit, wait a day or two and add the now empty brood chamber on the top. I suspect that the workers of the queenright unit will protect their queen from attack by the laying workers. That would explain why the combine also works well. After a while, the laying workers learn that they are guests and must behave accordingly.

Re the paper: They can chew up mostly any kind. Seems the last time I used two runs of paper towel. Figured the lap would suffice for the recommended slits.

Walt

[montanabee]

now, i am a bit more confused. I was told to put the weak, queenless hive on the bottom and add the queenright hive to the top. But if I am shaking the weak, laying workers off each frame, does that mean that I do it in front of the queened hive? so if this is a new place for them, won't they start fighting to get into the hive? or just think that their house is gone?

Also, what is the best time of day to do this? I don't want to lose foragers by doing it in the middle of the day. the hive with a queen is about 50 feet away from the other hives. It was the captured swarm from a few weeks ago, so I moved it a bit away from the others since I wasn't entirely sure where it came from.

[gmcharlie]

Well as I mentioned, I use a screen, single layer hardware cloth. the queen above. over a week or so the phermones frome the queen will transfer downward and the laying workers will stop (you can confirm with a visual inspection) at that point you just remove the screen and your done. no shakeing.....

[BEES4U]

How much vanilla - just a tiny drop?
I add a teaspoon to a cup of thin syrup.
I use peppermint, eucalyptus, wintergreem or spearmint because they are stronger smelling than vanilla.
But, vanilla may be more available.
Ernie

[BEES4U]

now, i am a bit more confused. I was told to put the weak, queenless hive on the bottom and add the queenright hive to the top.

This is the simple way:
I was told to put the weak, queenless hive on the bottom and add the queenright hive to the top.

The posting above is the safer method.
You could make a division board by cutting out 5 holes using a hole saw, double screening both sides, wait about 5-7 days and pull out the division board.
Your weak lower unit has old bees that will die off over the next 2-3 weeks.
Good luck,
Ernie

[Loonerone]

Your screen idea - my hive just killed a queen I introduced so I thought I'd try your screen idea and would like more details. Can I use a screen on top of the 2nd deep or do I need to shake all bees into one deep and then add screen, then queen, then top? How long can the queen live with just a few attendants and some food? Or should I remove the attendants? This is so confusing! I am a discouraged newbie. thanks!
Leann

[clarkfarm]

I have a strong hive with a good queen. It has 5 boxes on it right now. The weak hive has no queen and doesn't appear yet to have a laying worker but I could be wrong. Is the only way to combine correctly taking apart the large hive so that I can put the weak hive on the bottom and then replace all of those heavy 5 boxes?

What would be the downside of shaking all the weak queenless hive bees into one box of their hive and then putting that box over the top box of the strong hive with paper in between?( I also have a screened inner cover that I could use instead of the paper if that is better). Just hate the thought of moving that entire 5 box hive to put the weaker one on the bottom. Thanks

[gmcharlie]

Clark, that would work just fine... I would suggest the screen and about 2 days time.....

As for double screens, I would say no..... never tried it, but what your wanting is for hte bees to communicate with eachother without being able to fight.... a single layer of hardware cloth is what I use.

[clarkfarm]

gmcharlie -

Okay - I'm good to go with the one screen. Its hardware cloth. Guess I need to confess that my username is misleading. Sounds like I'm a guy but really that's not the case. That is one reason moving 5 heavy hive boxes is not appealing. Thanks for your response. Susan

[gmcharlie]

no problem susan. I am a big strong male and I don't like moveing them more than I need to ......