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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Pepperell, MA, USA
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    37

    Default introducing a carniolan queen to an italian queen-less colony

    I have plans all set up to do this shake out technique to save my colony (laying worker). Found a local source for a carniolan. A beekeeper friend says that introducing a carniolan queen to an italian colony is asking for trouble.

    I need some input from others more experienced than I.....

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Lyons, CO
    Posts
    3,046

    Default Re: introducing a carniolan queen to an italian queen-less colony

    The race of the queen shouldn't be an issue, more that you already have laying workers which can make introduction a little trickier. WWII is way over, dude... the bees don't engage in race wars the way we do . I've changed races on colonies a bunch and I haven't found an acceptance difference between changers and same-strainers.

    Introduce during a flow (or feed), do your shakeout dance, some say to smoke heavily to confuse pheromones. Might even try a push-in cage to let her start laying (which improves her pheromone profile vis-a-vis acceptance). Good luck!
    Bees, brews and fun
    in Lyons, CO

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Pepperell, MA, USA
    Posts
    37

    Default Re: introducing a carniolan queen to an italian queen-less colony

    Introduce during a flow (or feed), do your shakeout dance, some say to smoke heavily to confuse pheromones. Might even try a push-in cage to let her start laying (which improves her pheromone profile vis-a-vis acceptance).
    Can you explain what a flow or is? I'm such a newb.

    I don't have or use a smoker. I use sugar water in a spray bottle.

    How would a push cage work if I have no existing worker brood?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Lyons, CO
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    3,046

    Default Re: introducing a carniolan queen to an italian queen-less colony

    Quote Originally Posted by spiritfreedom View Post
    Can you explain what a flow or is? I'm such a newb.

    I don't have or use a smoker. I use sugar water in a spray bottle.

    How would a push cage work if I have no existing worker brood?
    Sure, sorry! A flow is a nectar flow, meaning something is blooming that the bees are foraging on. It makes them busier, more content and more docile. Don't worry about the smoke then (but isn't the syrup messy? Man I love my smoker). The push-in cage would work the same, except she wouldn't have the newly-hatched attendants. Hopefully someone would feed her! Though if they won't she wouldn't likely be accepted from a queen cage either. She would be able to begin laying though, which should make everyone happy.
    Bees, brews and fun
    in Lyons, CO

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Accord, NY
    Posts
    333

    Default Re: introducing a carniolan queen to an italian queen-less colony

    I always give them a couple of hours (2-4) queelles before I introduce a new queen. It makes them much more eager to accept her. You could do the same; give them a couple hours after the shake, let them contemplate life without a queen (works on husbands too but it takes a couple of days ).

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Island County, WA, USA
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: introducing a carniolan queen to an italian queen-less colony

    The shakeout method has caused some difficulty for some in my beekeeping club. I've heard reports that the hive doesn't accept the new queen because they think in error that they already have one. I am interested in Michael Bush's method of adding fresh brood every week until they raise their own. One of the things that worries me about the shake method (although I myself haven't had the opportunity to see a laying worker hive) is the question of what happens to the young bees that are needed to nurse the queen. A lot of them aren't mature enough to fly well if at all, so how are they going to make it back? You could also consider combining the queen-less hive with a strong hive for a couple of weeks, then doing a split. I'll defer to the more experienced folks here, but I wanted to jump in with what I've been hearing about the shake method. Take care, -- Logan

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Accord, NY
    Posts
    333

    Default Re: introducing a carniolan queen to an italian queen-less colony

    I've had hives that were queenless past the point where all the brood had hatched and they had not gotten laying workers.
    My guess is there are not that many young bees in a laying worker hive. The brood had hatched a while ago and the absence of brood hatching prompted the laying worker situation.

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