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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Lauderdale County TN USA
    Posts
    404

    Default Re: Will long smoking force swarming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chick View Post
    Does the queen ever come out of the tree?
    Yes, although I have not witnessed it personally. My B-In-Law has seen the queen walk out when smoking out. He keeps honey on the end of his finger to dab her with it so she can't fly. In a trapout, as I have been told, whenever she knows that there should be a good flow on and pollen sources but does not see any of it coming in, then she and the small bunch of bee's that remain inside the tree will swarm out. Due to laziness I have never put swarm baits up close to a trapout, but I have spoke to others who have.


    Something I will try when I return home on one tree colony is Bee Go. I picked a bottle of it up when I made a trip to Walter T. I assume when I use it I should either prevent the from having access to anything but the hive I want them to enter, or have a bee vac ready, as I'm sure a large majority of them are not going to stay afoot.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Fallbrook, CA
    Posts
    197

    Default Re: Will long smoking force swarming?

    Kyle,

    As I read it this I will offer my two cents. Your enthusiasm is great and I recall it as well, but this is not a good one for you to start with.

    Unless you have access to resources, a trap out is not a starter. I suggest you find you local bee club and bone up online with information.

    When ready, buy the woodenware with at least two deeps, top, bottom and frames. Have at least a veil and thick gloves.

    And catch a swarm. They will usually stay in the hive (feed them sugar water) and next year you will bee ready to attempt a trap-out or similar as you can then make a split from the original hive to start the trap-out.

    You can also check Craigslist or similar online site to find someone selling a hive, colony of bees or trying to get someone to pick up bees.

    Till then, keep reading and watch videos on google video, YouTube...

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Lauderdale County TN USA
    Posts
    404

    Default Re: Will long smoking force swarming?

    Aside from the single Hive I was given, that's how I have made most of my increase. I have gone from 1 single hive to catching two swarms to 8 trap outs, and one cutout in one year. While I believe I will have to combine 4 different hives into 2 and feed, that is yet to be seen until later this year. I would never suggest you not try anything, as even a failed attempt is still a very valuable lesson.
    Last edited by Bizzybee; 06-16-2009 at 08:04 PM. Reason: Unnecessary quoting

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Caledonia, NY
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: Will long smoking force swarming?

    Hi Jer733,

    I'm taking things slowly like you advised. I'm getting my apiary ready for next year, bulldozed an area way back in our yard under some sumac trees. I just seeded the area and reading all I can. So much to do... all fun.


  5. #25
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Knox County, Maine USA
    Posts
    92

    Default Let "em ALONE. Will long smoking force swarming?

    My vote is to leave the bees alone so they can thrive without the hands of humans dooming them to chemical treatments, foundation, wooden boxes and all kinds of smoke and unnecessary handling. We need more honeybees and if you have a feral colony that is doing well - fantastic! Let it bee - let it live a natural life. What more biological, natural bee stewardship can you get? I would love to just sit and watch them, learn, and not interfere.

    My 2 cents worth.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Caledonia, NY
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: Will long smoking force swarming?

    Loonerone, I'm with you on this. It is amazing to have bees on my own land, and I think they are doing well in the tree. If they swarm naturally, would you be okay with me capturing and keeping those bees, or are you against beekeeping? Not clear from your post. I didn't really want to get into beekeeping to run a pharmacy in my backyard, or smoke bees. I got a bit excited about the bees and now I'm going to slow down and think about how this all will play out - and think of what Thoreau would say.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Fallbrook, CA
    Posts
    197

    Default Re: Will long smoking force swarming?

    Back on the topic, I did in fact force a hive to abscond the other day.

    Was doing a cut-out under a jacuzzi. Took comb out and into the NUC. Bees were not going to move- left, then down, then up into the nuc, so I was herding them with some smoke.

    This was a fairly new colony ~1wk.

    They took it for 15 minutes or so then the air filled. I did get them from a tree the next AM, but they did take flight.

    Had good luck "herding" them out of water boxes, walls.... with smoke, but in these case the bees could go up to get away.


    Jer

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Venango/Crawford Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,714

    Default Re: Will long smoking force swarming?

    No way of scooping any of the bees out or on a frame?
    Last edited by Bizzybee; 06-21-2009 at 11:08 PM.
    "Where wisdom is called for, force is of little use."
    Herodotus (circa 485-425 BC), Greek Historian

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Fallbrook, CA
    Posts
    197

    Default Re: Will long smoking force swarming?

    I scooped for a while and looked for the queen, which I am usually pretty lucky to see, but not this time.

    I did see her as she climbed on to the NUC. When I reached for her with queen cage in hand, she flew. Then they all flew.


    Jer

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Venango/Crawford Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,714

    Default Re: Will long smoking force swarming?

    I never cage the queen. I just scoop them, her and workers on a frame and put it into the hive. Others follow........... What I have done, is even though I can't get or see the queen. If I can get a lot of the bees in the hive others will follow. Sometimes I might have her, the queen, and sometimes I am sure I don't. But I know the more I can get into the hive the better my chances are.

    Maybe they call her cell and say, "hey girl, you should check this place out!", "It has a areas to lay in and hard wood flooring, and honey, it's just dreamy..."
    Last edited by Bizzybee; 06-20-2009 at 12:11 PM. Reason: Unnecessary quoting
    "Where wisdom is called for, force is of little use."
    Herodotus (circa 485-425 BC), Greek Historian

  11. #31
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Palm Bay, FL, USA
    Posts
    2,312

    Default Re: Will long smoking force swarming?

    Kyle, there is one thing you can just about bet on; that feral colony will swarm some day. Instead of wasting time building a trap, build yourself a 5 frame nuc, buy a swarm lure from a bee supply such as Dadant or Mann Lake and place your nuc, with the lure hung inside, near (within a 100 yards) the "beetree" and up 6-8' off the ground. I have a "swarm nuc" in a tree in my backyard that has caught 6 feral swarms since February and I live in a subdivision with no other beekeepers nearby. Just to make sure they build orderly comb I nail 5 strips of 3/4" outside corner molding (Home Depot) lengthwise to the lid inside and rub the strips with beeswax. If they're in the nuc, even overnight, they start building perfectly straight comb on the strips but I usually hive them as soon as they're all in the nuc. I've tried the commercial swarm traps but they only last until the first afternoon rain in FL then fall apart; the nuc box lasts years. Once they swarm and you catch them you now have a hive in equipment that's easy to work with and a feral colony left in the tree so you can do the same thing again next swarm season.
    Last edited by fish_stix; 06-20-2009 at 08:35 PM. Reason: Capitalize word

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Caledonia, NY
    Posts
    19

    Default Re: Will long smoking force swarming?

    I'll do that. Thanks F.S. If they are surviving well in that tree they may good genetics that I should be patient and capture as they grow and swarm. I'm going to pick up some bees next week that are established in hives from one of the kind posters here. I'll be spending a lot of time reading all the information in print and here at BS. As a newbie, it's wonderful to have people take the time to explain stuff that is probably painfully obvious to them.

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Venango/Crawford Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,714

    Default Re: Will long smoking force swarming?

    Quote Originally Posted by fish_stix View Post
    buy a swarm lure from a bee supply such as Dadant or Mann Lake and place your nuc, with the lure hung inside, near (within a 100 yards) the "beetree" and up 6-8' off the ground. I have a "swarm nuc" in a tree in my backyard that has caught 6 feral swarms since February and I live in a subdivision with no other beekeepers nearby. .
    Only problem I see with that is I have had swarms that were so large that they would never fit in a nuc. Might I suggest you have a hive set up as well. I use Anise Oil that I bought from the healthfood store. They didn't have what I wanted and had to order it, but they had it in 2 days.

    Anise is what my mentor use back in the 60's and 70's... and guess what, it still works today!
    "Where wisdom is called for, force is of little use."
    Herodotus (circa 485-425 BC), Greek Historian

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fair Grove,MO,USA
    Posts
    1,617

    Default Re: Will long smoking force swarming?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle Leonard View Post
    I'll do that. Thanks F.S. If they are surviving well in that tree they may good genetics that I should be patient and capture as they grow and swarm. I'm going to pick up some bees next week that are established in hives from one of the kind posters here. I'll be spending a lot of time reading all the information in print and here at BS. As a newbie, it's wonderful to have people take the time to explain stuff that is probably painfully obvious to them.
    Watch the name calling it's not all BS. Just kidding . Jack

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Lauderdale County TN USA
    Posts
    404

    Default Re: Will long smoking force swarming?

    The swarm catch method will actually be better than any other method if you can successfully bait them into the hive. I have heard of using anise oil and or lemon grass oil. lots of people use nothing but drawn comb, others use a little honey or pollen frames. Swarms are much more likely to survive than a cutout or trapout ANY DAY. The only reason i do trapouts is to remove them from danger or human tampering. IE all my trapouts have been done on trees where the property owner wanted them gone.

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