OK, I give...

[sentientsoil]

I give up. It's (past) time for me to find a mentor.

Today I went to visit my bees. Tried to re-hang the comb they built between the frames in my swarm-caught hive. Moved one comb (a very small one) and mangled another until it was two nearly flat pieces of wax. The exaggeration is only slight. I was staring at the next comb, covered in bees and not-yet capped larvae when I realized I was losing this battle. Put the hive back together and moved onto the hive I bought as a nuc. They made me feel better and encouraged me alot. Nevermind the feeling that I set my other hive back 3 weeks, even though I caught the swarm 2 weeks ago.

So maybe I should call the president at my local bee club and see who he might recommend? Anybody here on beesource just dying to get their teach on?

[ScadsOBees]

Sure I have time on Saturday if you want to load up your hive and drive it on up...

The bee club is a great place to start.

-rick

[sentientsoil]

Jenison is how far?

I'm tempted to let the bees do what they want for a little while, till the comb hardens. right now I could hardly touch it without it giving way beneath my bumbling mammalian hands. but then again, I don't want the mess to get too crazy either.... they're already in 6 frames.

[RayMarler]

Get yourself a mentor, your local beeclub is where to look as you mentioned. I had a mentor, I was lucky. He had 40 hives in an outyard. Once a week I went with him to work his hives for over a year, and I continued to help him a couple more years taking bees to almond pollination contracts. It was a great experience and I learned so much in that one year, the kind of things you don't see mentioned in books.

[Countryboy]

I give up. It's (past) time for me to find a mentor.

We're supposed to have a mentor? All the people I get interested in beekeeping think I am supposed to be the mentor.

Bee clubs aren't always the best place to find mentors, or even good advice. My local bee club has no mentorship program. They were totally dumbfounded when I mentioned small cell and natural beekeeping. I talked to a local 911 operator the other day, who wanted to know if I was willing to do swarm removals. She said they have a bee list from the bee club, but it is older people, and they never want to go pick up swarms anymore. She knew of 2 swarm calls recently and they couldn't find anyone to get them. One swarm landed in a bush in front of a steakhouse, and the restaurant had people use a side door for a couple days until the swarm moved on.

My advice is to read all you can, and then go dig in a hive (go ahead and mess stuff up) and get some hands on experience.

Tried to re-hang the comb they built between the frames in my swarm-caught hive. Moved one comb (a very small one) and mangled another until it was two nearly flat pieces of wax.

In my hives, if the bees try making comb between frames (I've seen them do it with Pierco frames) I cut out the comb and throw it away. I don't try to move it. Normally, if the bees have room to make a comb between frames, there is too much room between frames. Squeeze the frames tightly together in the center of the box.

As long as the screwed up comb is there, the bees will keep trying to use it. If you leave it, that comb will just get worse. By the time it hardens, it may have larvae or sealed brood in it, which is a bigger investment for the bees. You may be further ahead to scrap the empty new comb, and let them make new.

I've seen bees build a pretty big chunk of comb in one day - so don't be worried about setting the bees back much by removing the comb.

[sentientsoil]

all of the comb already has larvae, but not sealed brood, in it. none of the comb in this hive is older than 2 weeks, and they're building it between frames the long way, because I'm experimenting with foundationless and so they have room to build it that way.

it's all where it's supposed to be, just over an inch. or something like that.

[indypartridge]

So maybe I should call the president at my local bee club and see who he might recommend?

Yes! Give Danny a call - he's a great guy and I'm confident he'll be able to help you and/or hook you up with someone. The Michiana Club has a lot of great beekeepers.
http://indianabeekeeper.goshen.edu/mba.html

[Countryboy]

none of the comb in this hive is older than 2 weeks, and they're building it between frames the long way, because I'm experimenting with foundationless and so they have room to build it that way.

it's all where it's supposed to be, just over an inch. or something like that.

Do you have a comb guide?

If the bees mess up one comb, they will mess up the whole box of foundationless.

Since everything is an inch off, I have to wonder if you direct released the queen, or if the queen cage was put between frames. If you let the bees release the queen and they started drawing comb off the queen cage, they may space every comb they build off that original out of place comb instead of following the comb guides.

I would put in a frame of drawn comb at the outer part of where they are drawing comb as a 'wall'. The bees will start following the comb guides again once they get past the frame of drawn comb.

You're not running 9 frames are you? Putting 9 foundationless frames in a box before they're drawn out is a recipe for disaster too.

[franktrujillo]

found that out the hard way.. i have no mentor either...i placed a ten frame that way...now i can't take no frames off my second deep box...Figure i'll remove the whole box later...when they move up there almost on the first shallow box now..swap and add excluder...

[BuzzinBerries]

I second that, Indypartridge. Danny is a great guy. I bought 4 awesome nucs from him two weeks ago. Nice calm bees and the queens are egg laying machines. He spent A LOT of time going over every frame with me as he loaded them in my hive. He seems to really enjoy helping out us newbies.

[sentientsoil]

Actually, Danny is an awesome guy, I agree! I bought a nuc from him last week on Wednesday, and it is totally doing great. He did the same thing for me as he did you, going thru each comb and showing me the queen. Apparently he does that with every nuc he sells. Mine are already drawing out a 2nd deep, no problems. The hive that's all askew was a swarm I caught 2 weeks ago. When I was capturing the swarm, I got some of the bees in my hive the first day, but not the queen. When I came back the next day, most of the bees were still on the tree, but when I opened the hive to try again, the ones I'd gotten in there were still there, clumped on the inner cover. I wonder if they might have started drawing comb while they were in there and I just didn't notice....

Anyway, I think I will try Countryboy's "wall" idea, and keep plugging away at re-placing the comb. Hopefully I won't crush quite as much as yesterday. I may have to wait till Sunday to get back into the hive though. Threatening to rain right now, and tomorrow I'm fishing with my dad and son.

First Things First, you know.

[Ross]

It its just two weeks in, I would fix it. Sounds like they don't have a huge investment. Scrap it if necessary. If you have a drawn frame from somewhere else, even partially draw, put it near the center of the box. Push all the other frames tight together, shoulder to shoulder, in the middle. Leave any excess space on the outside. Make sure you have 10 frames in a 10 frame box. Make sure you have a comb guide if you are going to use foundationless, either popcicle sticks, the wedge turned edgewise, or starter strips, something to tell them where to build.

[sentientsoil]

Thanks Ross.

To me, 6 frames, even partially drawn, sounds like a huge investment! Especially since I got to see all that larvae and the eggs, nectar, and pollen... *sigh*

yeah, they have guides. in retrospect, I should have used larger popsicle sticks, and maybe next time I will apply wax as well.

[Jer733]

sentientsoil-
Can you cut it out and rubber band it into the frames?

I use foundationless and do a few cut-out and do this regularly. The bees attach the comb to the frames and keep going.

Pick the best combs to use, keep the in same order as they are.

Can also cut them and "push" them over a bit to be in line with the center, may have to use cotton string or rubber bands again.

Second, the comment about a guide. I use grooved bars, break out the bar, rotate it 90degrees and nail it back on. Rub wax on them and seems to work fine. (Another one from Michael Bush, I think)

Someone mentioned 9 frames vs 10. I use foundationless and 9 frames. Have had issues on a few boxes, but nothing major.

Good Luck!

[hoodswoods]

none of the comb in this hive is older than 2 weeks, and they're building it between frames the long way, because I'm experimenting with foundationless and so they have room to build it that way.

it's all where it's supposed to be, just over an inch. or something like that.

Do you have a comb guide?

If the bees mess up one comb, they will mess up the whole box of foundationless.

Since everything is an inch off, I have to wonder if you direct released the queen, or if the queen cage was put between frames. If you let the bees release the queen and they started drawing comb off the queen cage, they may space every comb they build off that original out of place comb instead of following the comb guides.

I would put in a frame of drawn comb at the outer part of where they are drawing comb as a 'wall'. The bees will start following the comb guides again once they get past the frame of drawn comb.

You're not running 9 frames are you? Putting 9 foundationless frames in a box before they're drawn out is a recipe for disaster too.

Question, Countryboy - whis is this a recipe for disaster? - I just plopped a 10 frame foundationless box above my primary brood - is it a matter of the bees having too much to deal with, or the fact that the box is not fully loaded with frames, increasing the certain reality of comb spread, for a lack of technical terms.

[Countryboy]

It's a matter of incorrect frame spacing. Brood combs are 1 1/4 inches center to center. Drone comb is 1 3/8 center to center, and honeycombs are about 1 1/2 inches.

9 frames end up at 1 1/2 inch spacing. When you are off 1/4 of an inch on every frame, you start violating beespace by the time they get to the 3rd comb. Bees use the distance from the next comb as much as they use a comb guide. (You don't even need a comb guide if you place an empty frame between 2 drawn combs.) If your frames are on the wrong spacing, and the bees start drawing comb based upon distance to the next comb, they will quickly get off the comb guide - and then you have problems.

[KQ6AR]

My experience on finding a mentor has been similar to countryboy's.
The bee club has great people, with good intentions. Most of my knowledge has come from this site, next would be several books, & other internet sites. That gave us what we needed to get started. Now we have bees & go in the hives weekly to see what we can learn.

I might have to see if my club would be interested in starting a mentor program. I'd be willing to help the new guy install a package & set up a hive.