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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Land O Lakes, FL
    Posts
    264

    Default Varroa Counts - 1hr Sugar - Natural Drop - Oxalic Acid Drop - Another?

    I have 2 hives that I believed had a high mite load. Both are about 6-7 frames of bees. Below is my drop records. I believe I need to do another OA treatment.

    5/1 - 1 hour sugar dusting drop:
    Hive B - 46
    Hive D - 80

    5/3 - 48 hour natural drop to get a daily average of:
    Hive B - 8
    Hive D - 8

    5/7 - Oxalic Acid Dribble done

    5/9 - 48 hr total count
    Hive B - 16
    Hive D - 63

    5/12 - 72 hr total count
    Hive B - 9
    Hive D - 40

    Total Drop
    Hive B - 79
    Hive D - 191


    Do I need to do another OA dribble and is that safe? If so at what day from the 1st treatment should I do it?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
    Posts
    831

    Default

    If you give them a second OA dribble you might kill most of your worker bees. They already have enough acid in there stomach.

    You can treat during summer several times with OA liquid…. but only 1 TIME per bee generation. During summer a bee generation is approx 6 - 8 weeks, during winter up to 6-7 month.

    Treat them with OA vapor a few times a week apart and you kill almost all mites outside the cells. There is no harm to bees, queen or larva’s, or check for thymol strips, it is the easiest way to save a high infested colony.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Default Do I need to do another OA dribble and is that safe?

    What is your strength of the oxalic acid?
    Or, what is your grames per volume?
    I would go with the oxalic vaporization or Apiguard.
    Thanks,
    Ernie
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Land O Lakes, FL
    Posts
    264

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    What is your strength of the oxalic acid?
    Or, what is your grames per volume?
    I would go with the oxalic vaporization or Apiguard.
    Thanks,
    Ernie
    35 ml per hive of 3% oxalic acid in 50% sugar syrup per seam of bees

    I was avoiding the vaporization due the cost of getting setup for that with a vaporizer. I started to make a homemade one but the dribble just seemed so much easier.

    Apiguard is another option I considered but I did not want to have to put it on for 30-45 days and put those hives out of commission for that long.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    4,163

    Default

    I've read 1 oxalic drip per year in the fall max, & plan on replacing the queen the following season. Thats with 3.5%. I think the info came from scientificbeekeeping.com

    The oxalic dribble should have knocked out all the mites not in cells.
    Dan

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    FRASER VALLEY, BRITISH COLUMBIA
    Posts
    1,347

    Default

    Those mites that are not in the cells can keep dropping for 40 days. At least that's in the winter. I don't know if they are healthy enough to reproduce in the spring/summer time.

    I would use a thymol product.

    Jean-Marc

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    coppull, Lancashire, UK
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Varroa Counts - 1hr Sugar - Natural Drop - Oxalic Acid Drop - Another?

    So if we use oxalic acid, the resultant fall will last for 40 days, and then we can look for natural drop after this time period? If then the natural drop is higher than 2 a day, can we then treat with sugar dusting using sugar dusting bellows from beneath the hive mesh floor? Or would it be better to do it through the entrance. That way we would not disturb the cluster. In other words, if we still have varroa, how long after treating with oxalic acid can we treat with icing sugar?
    Joan

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
    Posts
    831

    Default Re: Varroa Counts - 1hr Sugar - Natural Drop - Oxalic Acid Drop - Another?

    IMO icing sugar is a hoax and not a mite treatment.

    I treated my hives with Thymol strips during summer. The second week in November I evaporated 2grams OA per hive. After two weeks there was an average of 15 – 25 dead mites per hive on the sticky boards. I evaporated a second time but don’t count anymore, so far all hives are OK.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Varroa Counts - 1hr Sugar - Natural Drop - Oxalic Acid Drop - Another?

    Oxalic acid should only be applied once a year by the dribble method and only at a time when there is no capped brood, -i.e. in the middle of winter. Any treatments at other times will serve little purpose and worse, risk damaging your bees, - particularly the queen who lives a lot longer than all the others.
    Colonies treated by OA in the winter tend to be a bit slower in their spring build-up than untreated colonies. It is not clear why.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Varroa Counts - 1hr Sugar - Natural Drop - Oxalic Acid Drop - Another?

    Do not give more, that would probably be lethal. There will be dropping more mites at least 10 days from your treatment.

    Did you check for brood? If there was no brood, you have killed 95% of the mites.
    Treatment free, honey production, isolation mated queens, www.saunalahti.fi/lunden/varroakertomus.html

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Walker, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    922

    Default Re: Varroa Counts - 1hr Sugar - Natural Drop - Oxalic Acid Drop - Another?

    Quote Originally Posted by Axtmann View Post
    IMO icing sugar is a hoax and not a mite treatment.
    On Randy Oliver's site ( http://www.scientificbeekeeping.com )he has posted results with photos of his own experiments with powdered sugar and it is no hoax! It does not help with mites in the cells, but it is very effective against the phoretic ones.

    Rusty
    Rusty Hills Farm -- home of AQHA A Rusty Zipper & Rusty's Bees ( LC and T)

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lottsburg, Virginia USA
    Posts
    154

    Default Re: Varroa Counts - 1hr Sugar - Natural Drop - Oxalic Acid Drop - Another?

    Sugar dusting has been found to be ineffective for mite control by tests carried out by Amanda Ellis in a study in 2009. Keith Delaplane again tested the system and found the survival rate between dusted and undusted colonies to be virtually the same. this article is in the February copy of the ABJ, you decide.
    Johno

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Baytown, TX., USA.
    Posts
    651

    Default Re: Varroa Counts - 1hr Sugar - Natural Drop - Oxalic Acid Drop - Another?

    At Homestead Air Base it is 80 degrees F. You are in summer weather, why all this winter talk.
    I just made an OA vaporizer with a coffee warmer and a copper end cap for less than 20 bucks. It is described in recent posts here on BeeSource. Runs on a car battery, can you get your car near your hive? if not buy 10 dollars of wire and extend the hookup or buy a small battery. I had one in my lawn tractor and used that all over

    Look at this vaporizer;

    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...ight=vaporizer

    About post #16 or #19

    I also built a 1x4 spacer to fit on top my hives and used it to hold the vaporizer in place on the top bars when applying the OA vapor. There are many videos on the web showing how to use a vaporizer.My vapor box has a plastic top for a window but that is not necessary, just nice to watch what happens.

    You can use a short pipe, 1x4 box and a propane torch to vaporize a hive, look for the videoes. Total cost about 25 bucks. The propane torch cost mainly.
    Last edited by julysun; 01-28-2014 at 01:19 PM.
    Julysun elevation 23 feet. 4 Hives, 2 years.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Varroa Counts - 1hr Sugar - Natural Drop - Oxalic Acid Drop - Another?

    You guys may want to note the date of the first post.....
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Baytown, TX., USA.
    Posts
    651

    Default Re: Varroa Counts - 1hr Sugar - Natural Drop - Oxalic Acid Drop - Another?

    Thanks beemandan, my face is very red!!!
    Julysun elevation 23 feet. 4 Hives, 2 years.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Varroa Counts - 1hr Sugar - Natural Drop - Oxalic Acid Drop - Another?

    Quote Originally Posted by julysun View Post
    Thanks beemandan, my face is very red!!!
    I'm thinkin' that the statute of limitations has expired on this one
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Baytown, TX., USA.
    Posts
    651

    Default Re: Varroa Counts - 1hr Sugar - Natural Drop - Oxalic Acid Drop - Another?

    Band wagons often get loaded with country bumpkins!
    Julysun elevation 23 feet. 4 Hives, 2 years.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    4,163

    Default Re: Varroa Counts - 1hr Sugar - Natural Drop - Oxalic Acid Drop - Another?

    You're close, Weekly dustings are proven to keep mite numbers about the same in a hive. Less than weekly the mite numbers rise. These are from Randy Oliver www.scientificbeekeeping.com
    From my personal experience, if a hive has high mite numbers it can be lowered with PS by dusting 2-3 times per week for 3 consecutive weeks. Been using PS to lower mite #'s for 6 years with good results. We've lost 10% this winter. We also use small cell.

    Quote Originally Posted by johno View Post
    Sugar dusting has been found to be ineffective for mite control by tests carried out by Amanda Ellis in a study in 2009. Keith Delaplane again tested the system and found the survival rate between dusted and undusted colonies to be virtually the same. this article is in the February copy of the ABJ, you decide.
    Johno
    Dan

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    syracuse n.y.
    Posts
    1,979

    Default Re: Varroa Counts - 1hr Sugar - Natural Drop - Oxalic Acid Drop - Another?

    Quote Originally Posted by julysun View Post
    Thanks beemandan, my face is very red!!!
    probably from that 80 degree heat, my face is red to, from that -5 degree heat and the wind blowing, send some of the heat north please
    mike syracuse ny
    I went to bed mean, and woke up meaner. Marshal Dillon

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