Deep broods frames vs. mediums

[2hives]

There seems to be some trend for beekeepers to go to one size box for the entire hive, such as mediums. (Michael Bush, Kim Flottum and others often recommend this) I wonder if it makes any difference to the proper distribution of eggs being laid by the queen. I read an article recently where the beekeeper prefers deeps because the queen likes the significantly greater real estate she has to move about on. Is this a valid statement, or is there really no difference in good egg distribution if one uses only mediums for the brood boxes? Thanks.

[Cedar Hill]

Just look at a swarm that has made its home in an apple tree in some local orchard. Are the combs the size of a medium frame or that of a deep? Precisely, Langstroth probably tried to make his hive as natural to the bees as possible. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L._L._Langstroth Beekeepers should at least try once to have a hive of all mediums. However for wintering here in MA I prefer two deeps. OMTCW

[Natalie]

From what I have heard winter survival rate may be higher when using all mediums.
The theory is that the bees would rather move up than side to side and with mediums they can eat their way up the hive throughout winter.
They say it does make a difference and that many times bees will starve with the food only inches to their left or right.
For mediums its recommended that you use three for brood and leave 2 with honey/pollen for the winter.
It seems like alot of boxes for the winter but I bet its better than trying to find a place to store them all when not in use.
Anyhow, this is my first year and I am giving it a try.
I cannot say one way or the other and the information I just posted is just what I have been told and found during my research.
The mediums are working out well for me right now and I will find out this winter if the theory holds true about their overwintering and foodstores.

One other thing an old beek told me was that the colony has better communication when using all mediums than deeps, something to do with less expanse to cover when there is more breaks in between combs.
Something to that effect, I would have to go look it up for more info but if anyone knows what the heck I am trying to say please elaborate.

[Ross]

My queens will lay in 3 to 5 boxes of mediums. She has access to all the real estate she wants.

[Rebel Rose]

I have been slowly going to all mediums. Much easier on the back too! I have also been using mediums for the swarms....they seem to like them better.

Brenda

[gmcharlie]

I disagree with the trend to move to mediums.... I use one or two deeps and Mediums for honey only. easier to tell at a glance whats on the hive.
The brood doesn't get moved (much anyway) so wieght is not a problem and brood stock frames are not as heavy as honeyfilled frames.
When you caculate surface area for her to lay on and whats lost to bars and such my deeps have always had better brood patterns and results.
less frames to search for the queen when I want her. (no queen excluders used)

I will put a meduim of honey on top a week hive in the fall (one that only filled one deep) and come spring there is brood in it. I move it up and put on another deep as soon as the weather is right, and they hatch the brood and put honey in its place.

My two cents worth, since I am not moving the deeps around like honey supers surface area and less frames is much more valuable than saveing 10 lbs.

[Brenda]

I started out with all mediums. I left 4 supers on over winter, 2 brood and 2 honey. I lost them to real nasty cold snap last Jan. They had moved up into #3 super. Now I wonder if 2 supers of honey would have enough if they'd survived into spring?

I'm looking at using the mediums for brood and going to shallows for honey. Even the mediums are too heavy for me when full of capped honey. I have to take some of the frames out and then lift them. Bad back, some fatigue and weakness due to previous illness.

[Countryboy]

I'm looking at using the mediums for brood and going to shallows for honey. Even the mediums are too heavy for me when full of capped honey. I have to take some of the frames out and then lift them.

I would discourage someone from using medium brood boxes, and shallow honey supers. It is too easy to mix up frames. And if you happen to put a shallow frame in a medium box, they build comb on the bottom of the frame and securely anchor it to the box below. (Don't ask me how I know - but now that I am going to all boxes of one size, I don't have to worry about that happening again.)

Have you tried 8 frame mediums? They are lighter. And you don't have to run the whole hive as 8 frame - leave the brood boxes as 10 frame mediums if you want, with 8 framers on top for the honey supers. You can lay a strip of board across the gap on the top 10 frame medium, and that will work fine.

And pulling frame by frame works too, especially if you don't have a lot of hives to work. And you can inspect as you pull, to make sure the frames don't have any brood in them.

[Michael Bush]

I run eight frame mediums and no excluder. The queen is almost always laying in two boxes and if the hive had built up at all three to five boxes. I'm with Ross. I don't see any less real estate. The queen is more willing to move up to the next box when all she has to lay in is a medium. She is less willing to move up when she has a deep to lay in. It helps her make up her mind. I also think they winter better as the bees are less likely to get stuck on the other side of a comb when the cluster contracts in a cold snap as the cluster almost always spans the gap between the boxes which provides communication between the combs.

[Brenda]

Have you tried 8 frame mediums? They are lighter. And you don't have to run the whole hive as 8 frame - leave the brood boxes as 10 frame mediums if you want, with 8 framers on top for the honey supers. You can lay a strip of board across the gap on the top 10 frame medium, and that will work fine.

I thought about 8 frame supers, but I have to remove more than 2 frames in a full honey super to lift it. I'd still have to remove frames to lift it. Just 2 less.
Still thinking about it. Ultimately my back will decide for me.

[tecumseh]

natalie writes:
From what I have heard winter survival rate may be higher when using all mediums.
The theory is that the bees would rather move up than side to side and with mediums they can eat their way up the hive throughout winter.
They say it does make a difference and that many times bees will starve with the food only inches to their left or right.

tecumseh:
obviously a factor that has little relevance in central texas, but is of considerable concern where mizz natalie lives.

this 'theory' would conform to observation made by steve taber in regards to perfectly drawn comb. with absolutely no imperfection in deep combs the bees (at extremely high and cold locations) had difficulty moving horizontally to access food stores. a year later with holes cut into the perfect comb the hives could survive the quite extreme conditions.

so yes I would suspect that survival rates might be enhanced with mediums than with deeps. that is the increased number of passages left and right (horizontally) created by the use of mediums would increase winter survival rates.