Prices of Queen

[HarryVanderpool]

Buying cells and raising queens is nice, but I sure do appreciate being able to pick up the phone and have Queens magically appear on my doorstep.
I have no complaints about price or quality.
Now the weather; thats a different story...

[JohnK and Sheri]

I guess I have been putting all my eggs in one basket for to many years when it comes to buying my queens.

Yeah, that is a scary thing, especially when one part of the country might be much better in any particular year than another. We booked early queens this year from CA, TX and FL, we would have booked from ME and WA but they tell me it is a tad cold up there in April.

There has to be to big of a demand for queens from my producer to not still take care of those that have been paying the bills over the last 16 years.

Remember, his expenses went up too. He maybe should have raised prices a couple years ago already.

How do I tell my packer I'm increasing my price 15% this year. Well the cat is out of the bag now. Ron

Yeah, let us know how that works out. Remember, if he won't pay it, someone else will.....or maybe not.
Sheri

[honeyshack]

I guess I have been putting all my eggs in one basket for to many years when it comes to buying my queens.
The problem is I thought by buying all my queens and packages from the same producer, that my supplies would not run my price up as fast as smaller buyers.
There has to be to big of a demand for queens from my producer to not still take care of those that have been paying the bills over the last 16 years. I guess I need to up my prices on my product to offset my added expenses. Or just say I losted my job and give the new truck back.

How do I tell my packer I'm increasing my price 15% this year. Well the cat is out of the bag now.

Ron

When we can't increase our prices to match the increase inputs that we are paying, we have to get creative and find ways to decrease our inputs or find other avenues where we can add value to our product.
One of the creative ways we decreased inputs with the cows was...
...when feeding hubby would make 4-10 trips to the hay yard to get bales to feed the cows. When we feed every other day that is alot of trips and extra time the tractor ran. So he started taking the hay wagon out there and hauled 5 bales at a time. This cut fuel, oil, and running time on the tractor. You would be surprised how that added up. The trick is to get creative. Pennies here and there add up.
Never cut on herd/apiary health but find creative ways.
Some creative ways to cut in a ag business whether it be cows or bees, culling rather than excessive treating to get an animal or hive healthy and productive...usually never pays.
Selling nucs or hives in the fall or spring, farm gate sales where you can set your honey price. I'm sure you have other creative ideas to cut or minimize inputs or ways to add value to your product you sell.

[Countryboy]

The problem is I thought by buying all my queens and packages from the same producer, that my supplies would not run my price up as fast as smaller buyers.
There has to be to big of a demand for queens from my producer to not still take care of those that have been paying the bills over the last 16 years.

You get what you pay for. I'm sure there are queen producers who would sell you queens for $10. (Then again, maybe you want cheap [junk] queens to put in the packages you sell.)

I guess I don't understand the crybaby approach to input costs. Personally, in ANY of my business ventures, I have NEVER cared how much something costs. I DO NOT want to save money - because you can't save your way into having a fortune. You must first earn your fortune before you have anything to save.

I want to MAKE money. I don't care what something costs - I care about how much money it will make me, and how long it will take to get that return.

How hard is it to recoup the $3 difference between a $12 and a $15 queen? 2 pounds of honey. That's it! A good queen can pay for herself in a hurry - but good queens are not the cheapest queen you can get.

You would think that someone who claims to make a very good living with bees would understand economic concepts like this. Garbage in - garbage out. Quality in - quality out.

[JohnK and Sheri]

[I]
Personally, in ANY of my business ventures, I have NEVER cared how much something costs. I DO NOT want to save money - because you can't save your way into having a fortune. You must first earn your fortune before you have anything to save.

In any business the difference between what something costs and what you can sell it for (minus other expenses of course) is the profit. You can raise your prices to raise your profit and/or you can lower costs. To say you don't care how much something costs is ignoring half the equation. Widening your margin is the ultimate goal.
It is not being a "crybaby" to wonder how to control costs of what is basically a commodity. Anyone who wants to stay in business better have an eye on their costs.
Sheri

[Chef Isaac]

Some people say it takes spending money to make money. True in case but there comes a time where one needs to take a different approach.

A couple of years ago, I helped a few peole open up some restaurants. Two owners have never been in the food industry and one hting they had a hard time with was the fact that prices change on our end so therefor prices must change on the consumer end. One of the owners took the advice and went with it. When wild salmon went up in price, the menu changed. Matter of fact, we went to a weekly menu that changed all the time. This was a great way to be able to stay curent with pricing. Things like asparagus, seafood, meat, etc change daily.

The other owner did not take this advice. He did not want to raise his prices because in his mind, he didnt want to deal with pissed off customers so he would be serving asparagus in the middle of winter that was $5.10 a pound where, in the spring and early summer, asparagus goes for about 1.50 a pound. So he would serve the asparagus in the winter time and not change the price to reflect the price of the vegetable price increase. Needless to say, he closed his doors 4 months later.

The other owner, just last month, opened up his second restaraunt and is still doing the same concept.

We all know prices will go up on everything. If you think, for example, packaged bees are going to go down in price, it will never happen. The end consumer also udnerstands that even though we all complain about the cost of seafood, beef, etc. But it is all passed down. The best way, and this is only my opinion, is to cut out the middle man.

[Keith Jarrett]

Well Sheri,

I couldn't have said it any better. But, can I still sell him some sub @ $10.00 lb.

[Countryboy]

You can raise your prices to raise your profit and/or you can lower costs. To say you don't care how much something costs is ignoring half the equation. Widening your margin is the ultimate goal.

Bingo. You have to look at ALL sides of the equation. Input costs alone are not enough to make a good business decision.

But you forgot the 3rd option for increasing profits. You can increase yield. You can have the same selling price, the same input costs, and more profits simply by increasing yield.

In agriculture, better management results in increased yields.

This reminds me of an old farmer I know who 'would not waste his money' on soybean seed innoculant that costs $4 an acre. Yet, he could not understand how his son could grow soybeans in the field across the road, and have 3-5 bushels per acre more yield. Same seed variety, same weather, same soil, same chemical package....the only difference was the son would 'waste' his money on that $4 innoculant.

[Keith Jarrett]

[QUOTE=Countryboy;420988But you forgot the 3rd option for increasing profits. You can increase yield. You can have the same selling price, the same input costs, and more profits simply by increasing yield..[/QUOTE]

Yep, it's time to tell queeny to throttle up the waszoo. lol

[Countryboy]

LOL Keith.

That's what your $10 sub is for.

Or are you going to tell me that not all queens are created equal?

I've been around grain farmers my whole life. Yield is a VERY big factor to them, because that is the easiest way of increasing their profits...higher yields. Yet, I am surprised in reading this commercial forum how little importance many seem to place on yield. They will worry about a nickel movement ($7.50 on 150 pounds), but they don't seem to be looking for ways to increase yield by 5 pounds ($7.50 @ $1.50 a pound).

My perception is that many folks worry about inputs and selling price, and just accept whatever yield they can get. Swarm prevention and pollen patties seem to be the most common (or only) yield increasing management strategies.

[honeyshack]

Increasing yield is a good idea, but sometimes yield can only go so far. Inputs need to be kept in check so that you have the $ to increase yield. Increasing yield costs $ and if your inputs are too high, you will not have the $ to increase the yield.

[Beeslave]

Here's a question for you all.

If given a chance, would you buy cells at $3-4 or buy mated queens at 14-18 ? And why would you buy one over the other?

Mated queens in WI( after almonds) in april for replacing dead outs(12% of 816 QL,DL or just empty this year) for honey producers. Also used for making colonies(brood makers not honey producers) to make increase hives out of. Smaller colonies are much easier to find queens in and tolerate excluders better (keeping them in 1 deep). From those brood is put in 5 frame nucs for cells arriving late may and early june from FL. This years mated queens @ 90% acceptance of 150( 6 bad my fault). Last years May cells (shipped from FL)were +/- 80%.

Mated Queens if you want to make honey. Cells when weather is right and you just want extra colonies or mid summer replacements.

[Dan Williamson]

Here's a question for you all.

If given a chance, would you buy cells at $3-4 or buy mated queens at 14-18 ? And why would you buy one over the other?

You also have the issue of genetics... you are getting one side of the equation with cells. By purchasing laying queens you are getting drone semen from the breeder colonies and their surrounding apiaries' genetics. One thing you are expecting from a queen breeder is them applying careful/stringent attention to drone mother colonies and saturating the area with selected drone mothers. (Understanding that they are still open-mated.) Cells on the other hand will require drone semen from your colonies or surrounding apiaries. Are queen cell buyers making an effort at selecting quality drone mother colonies to use in saturating an area with these high quality traits from the drone side? That is something only they can answer. If a beekeeper is happy with their current drone population and the quality then cells may make sense for them in some cases.

Another issue is this: If a beekeeper is hoping to make splits in early spring and get a honey crop and/or sell nucs with laying queens then a cell instead of a laying queen may put you behind the curve. Part of the issue is also about what one is looking to accomplish and what they have to start with.

There is one answer fits all.

[jim lyon]

The old beekeeping rule of thumb is early spring queens = 1 lb. of bees = 10 pounds of honey. Seems we are still in that same range. Does a higher price equate to higher quality? I don't think there is any simple answer to that, I will say that there is nothing like good mating conditions to raise good well mated queens so that is the first variable. Ample available drones is certainly part of the equation but assuming only your nearby hives are getting all the matings flies in the face of most of the research I have read about DCA's attracting drones from a very large area.

[Keith Jarrett]

Ample available drones is certainly part of the equation but assuming only your nearby hives are getting all the matings flies in the face of most of the research I have read about DCA's attracting drones from a very large area.

Well said Jim,

I run 1200 hive for drones then put the increase in between them for about a two mile stretch. Drones are a highly important part.

[Dan Williamson]

The person who started this thread kills off his bees every year. He doesn't have a drone pool to start with let alone a quality drone pool. What good will cells do for him? That was partly why I went down that road.

Sure drones are extremely important... However, how many beekeepers that use cells are selecting drone stock to use for saturation or are they just using whatever they have in their colonies? It is important to attempt to saturate the breeding area with large numbers of diverse drones from selected quality stock. And no not all the drones that mate with your queen will likely be of the selected stock nor from your own apiary.

Of course the DCA's can attract drones from larger sources than just your own apiaries but you CAN do some things to attempt to influence the stock. I certainly never implied that only your nearby hives will get most of the matings. I've talked to several breeders that offer free queens to the other apiaries in the vicinity of their breeding yards in an attempt to influence the genetics in a larger area with their prefered stock. That is just one method a breeder may use to help the process.

There is nothing wrong with using your 1200 colonies (or whatever you have) plus any other genetics in the area as drone sources especially if you are happy with what you have. Its just that what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for everyone. Maybe the beekeeper 20mi down the road isn't happy with the stock he's running (ie extremely susceptible to foulbrood, chalk, nosema or whatever etc...) and wants to try something new..... If he doesn't bring in different stock altogether using mated queens then he's mating these new queens from the cells with at least some drones of stock he's trying to eliminate.

I use cells alot and think it can be a great asset but if your goal is something different it isn't necessarily the answer.

[honeyman46408]

The person who started this thread kills off his bees every year

Hey Dan I want to know where he gets a 2# package that he can split in 3 weeks

[The Honey Householder]

Who splits 2# packages in 3 weeks. The packages was shaken in on 3-21 and this is 5-5. No just spliting but shaking packages now too. Who need drone pool when you are buying breed queens.
This tread worked out great, got reduced billing in the mial today. Sometime you have to b---h a little to get your point across.

Ron

[BEES4U]

There are a lot of good beekeepers that provide the drones for breeding the queen cells that they make or purchase.
Ernie

[tecumseh]

mr jarrett writes:
I run 1200 hive for drones

tecumseh:
I noticed you did not call these drone mother hives? if that means what it means to me, this would suggest your next sentence is wishful thinking.