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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Casper, Wy, USA
    Posts
    803

    Default BWrangler's Leaving Tbhs Behind

    Hi Guys,

    One tbh disadvantage has me switching back to Langs from tbhs. And it's something you should consider before choosing a tbh. Will you need to move your tbh? And do you have access to the equipment to do so?

    I've returned to Wyoming where beekeeping requires me to move at least twice a year. Previously, I had a full size pickup, a ramp, a hand cart and some help if I needed it. With this stuff, moving tbhs was easier and safer than moving Langs.

    But today, I have a toy truck, no ramp and no help. The toy truck is too small to use with the hand cart. And tbhs are just too heavy and too hard to handle by myself.

    Langs have a small footprint. They are modular and can be disassembled, which makes them easier and possible to move in my current situation. This factor along has forced me to switch from tbhs to Langs.

    Something to think about.

    Regards
    BWrangler
    I once wrangled bees. But now, knowing better, I just let them bee. It's only natural.
    http://talkingstick.me/bees/

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    OPP, Al USA
    Posts
    418

    Default

    Another one bites the dust.
    Yeah, moving some of those big TBHs can be a buggar. My first Long Hive taught me that real quick. The TBH I'm working on now will be a lot lighter and have no permanently attached legs.
    But you will still continue Beeking. And in Wyoming, that's a Great place to do anything. I envy you.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Salisbury, NC
    Posts
    33

    Default

    Will you use foundationless frames, to at least get the natural cell advantages?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    24,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hooday View Post
    Will you use foundationless frames, to at least get the natural cell advantages?
    Natural cell advantage? Is that the same as small cell? Do bees who draw their own comb w/out foundation naturally draw small cells? I wonder because i have heard of regressing by generations or season from "normal" cell size to small cell cell size.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Accord, NY
    Posts
    336

    Smile BWrangler returning to Tbhs...

    Exciting, revolutionary new model makes moving a piece of cake!!!
    My $20 it's going to be next spring.
    Winters in Wyoming are long, plenty of time to come up with a solution.
    Good luck with the move,
    Aram

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,419

    Default

    >Natural cell advantage? Is that the same as small cell?

    Sort of. Natural cell will be smaller than large cell and more variety than small cell.

    > Do bees who draw their own comb w/out foundation naturally draw small cells?

    Yes.
    http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm

    > I wonder because i have heard of regressing by generations or season from "normal" cell size to small cell cell size.

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnatural...atisregression
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Saskatchewan, Canada
    Posts
    282

    Default

    Sad to hear. I'm just about to embark on this journey and will be making an improved next best ever top bar long hybrid hive . I want to make a long tbh (so I get natural cell), supered with top bars for comb honey and another super with large cell for extracted.

    Do you envision any problems with this? I'm going to use gapped top bars to allow the bees to move up. Will the bees not want to draw comb on the top bars with preference for the foundation (I'm planning to use plastic (Pierco) foundation)? Is there a problem moving them with tb's, like is the comb going to break off?

    Now your problem. Why not just lang sized boxes with tb's in them? Medium depth tbh's? Side by side deeps with communicating holes that can be closed off to move them?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Portland, OR, USA
    Posts
    635

    Default

    Thought about Warre hives? Similar footprint to Langs, modular, etc.

    Matt

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Casper, Wy, USA
    Posts
    803

    Default

    Hi Guys,

    Thanks for the comments.

    I will use a natural comb approach on my Lang hives, and space the frames at 1 1/4 inches.

    And if I can find a cheap trailer or eventually get a full size truck, my next top bar hive will be a two box combo hive, that can be run as a top bar hive or used with frames. For my needs, it would be the ultimate hive, except for moving. Check out:

    http://www.bwrangler.com/tnex.htm

    I've got a vertical tbh design based on the Warre' concept. It's a little taller and deeper. And the cover deviates from the Warre' concept. But it would be managed about the same. Check out:

    http://www.bwrangler.com/tver.htm

    This hive lacks compatibility with conventional equipment. And I seem to find myself with a perpetual equipment mix. I'd like to go one way or the other. But find myself too cheap and too poor to dispose of it.

    The ultimate solution is to find a permanent location not requiring moving hives. But then, I'd probably have to move myself again. And this moving myself and bees is a real hassle.

    Regards
    BWrangler
    I once wrangled bees. But now, knowing better, I just let them bee. It's only natural.
    http://talkingstick.me/bees/

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    24,461

    Default

    Space the frames at 1 1/4 inches, apart? Doing that will result in alot of burr and/or bridge comb being built. Why would you do that?

    If you want to encourage the building of "natural cell comb" why don't you just put empty frames in between drawn frames? Putting two empty frames in between three drawn combs in a 5 frame nuc box and then installing a split w/ a queen cell or a virgin queen will get you drawn frames of worker comb. Think about it.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
    Posts
    43,419

    Default

    >Space the frames at 1 1/4 inches, apart? Doing that will result in alot of burr and/or bridge comb being built. Why would you do that?

    Not really.

    http://www.bushfarms.com/beesframewidth.htm
    http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnatural...m#framespacing
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Minerva, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    69

    Default Kenyan Insert

    I recently designed this Kenyan insert to fit inside a Lang deep:

    http://www.biobees.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2461

    I've built four of them so far and am happy with the results.
    Will find out soon if the bees agree.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Casper, Wy, USA
    Posts
    803

    Default

    Hi Guys,

    >space the frames at 1 1/4 inches.

    Maybe I should have said, "reduce the frame width from 1 3/8" to 1 1/4" and run 11 frames per brood chamber."

    Regards
    BWrangler
    I once wrangled bees. But now, knowing better, I just let them bee. It's only natural.
    http://talkingstick.me/bees/

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Whatcom Co., WA
    Posts
    39

    Default

    bwrangler- looked at the ultimate tbh on your web site... quick question- how do you glue in plastic foundation starter strips to wood top bars?

    thank you!

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Casper, Wy, USA
    Posts
    803

    Default

    Hi Abeeco,

    My starter strips are only a couple of cells tall. I use melted beeswax to fasten them in. And give the strips a beeswax coating at the same time.

    If my starter strips were taller, where bees could cluster and hang from them before drawing comb, I would use a couple of 3/4" frame brads in addition to the beeswax.

    Regards
    BWrangler
    I once wrangled bees. But now, knowing better, I just let them bee. It's only natural.
    http://talkingstick.me/bees/

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Casper, Wy, USA
    Posts
    803

    Default

    Hi Guys,

    Nope. Just can't do it. I'm going to restart and keep a couple of top bar hives. After nearly a decade of small cell testing, my Lang hives are on there last legs with rotten corners, dry rot, etc. It's either buy more replacement Lang stuff or move toward tbhs.

    The cost of new Lang stuff plus shipping is out of sight. The economics are much more skewed toward building a tbh than when I first wrote my tbh pages eight years ago.

    So, tbhs it is. I'll probably go with my next top bar hive which is a natural comb hive that can function as either a standard long hive or a tbh.

    http://www.bwrangler.com/tnex.htm

    Moving is a real pain. But I'm just going to have to work that out. I'll run fewer hives. Only what I can carry in my toy truck without stacking. And maybe even come up with a better way to move them. I've got a few ideas about it.

    Regards
    BWrangler
    I once wrangled bees. But now, knowing better, I just let them bee. It's only natural.
    http://talkingstick.me/bees/

  17. #17
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Accord, NY
    Posts
    336

    Default


    Oooops, did I just lose $20?
    Well worth it, I'm sure. I said it before, I probably wouldn't be keeping bees if I hadn't stumbled on your site. Lots of help and inspiration there, glad to see it go on.
    Good luck with the move,
    Keep us posted,
    Aram

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Totnes, Devon, England
    Posts
    1,019

    Default portable top bar hive

    Quote Originally Posted by BWrangler View Post
    Hi Guys,

    One tbh disadvantage has me switching back to Langs from tbhs. And it's something you should consider before choosing a tbh. Will you need to move your tbh? And do you have access to the equipment to do so?
    Just for you, BWrangler!

    http://www.biobees.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2831

    Last edited by buckbee; 04-13-2009 at 09:02 AM. Reason: add picture
    The Barefoot Beekeeper http://www.biobees.com

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Casper, Wy, USA
    Posts
    803

    Default

    Hi Buckbee,

    Is that hive of yours a neat hive or what! Where else can one find such innovative beekeepers but with the top bar hive crowd!

    No wonder I can't leave tbhs and their keepers behind.

    Thanks guys.

    Regards
    BWrangler
    Last edited by BWrangler; 04-14-2009 at 08:17 AM.
    I once wrangled bees. But now, knowing better, I just let them bee. It's only natural.
    http://talkingstick.me/bees/

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Portland, OR, USA
    Posts
    635

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BWrangler View Post
    Hi Buckbee,

    Is that hive of yours a neat hive or what! Where else can one find such innovative beekeepers but with the top bar hive crowd!

    No wonder I can leave tbhs and their keepers behind.

    Thanks guys.

    Regards
    BWrangler
    I think he meant "can't leave tbhs and their keepers behind."!

    Matt

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