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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    omaha nebr. USA
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    494

    Default Successful Farming

    Just read my March Issue.
    Matter of fact I read it 2 times.
    Any one that has a chance to read this mag. please read the " Seed Armor " section.
    It's no wonder people are having problems with sweet corn & the stuff it's treated with.
    Poor bees never have a chance anymore!
    This tells the story.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    berkshire county MA
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    1,472

    Default

    soupcan, is there a link to it? still have wax?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    omaha nebr. USA
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    494

    Default Wax & ?????

    Still have wax to sell.
    I went to the Successful Farming site & it looks as though they are a few weeks behind on posting.
    It looks like a lot of the items on line are from last month.
    Tried to find a phone number to call them & that's a no go also.
    I will keep looking & let you know.
    This read really took me by surprise.
    And I pretty much grew up on the farm.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Auger Hole, MN
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    433

    Default

    might be a problem with that story. corn gives no nectar, in the midwest here we participated in a pollen analysis study with a university.

    no corn pollen was brought in by our bees in the 4 month season. only a few traces.

    in more arid regions this may be a different story on the pollen.

    there are a lot of arm chair scientists out there with no credentials and no bee background making sweeping speculative conclusions.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    omaha nebr. USA
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    494

    Default Pollen

    Bees work sweet corn & regular corn.
    Most sweet corn seed is also treatred.
    I have seen bees working both & so has most of my relation that farm.
    1st of all I am not a tree hugger.
    Let me make that perfectly clear!
    But I would like to know if there have been any tests done with reguard to the human harvesting of the pollen from these plants or can the chemical that is used to treat the plant seed be found in the plant itself.
    Next problem is who does one find to even begin this type of testing.
    There are by far to many just simple common sense questions that many of us think need to be addressed.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Owen, WI, USA
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    2,551

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bud Dingler View Post
    in the midwest here we participated in a pollen analysis study with a university.
    I wonder who funded the study.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bud Dingler View Post
    no corn pollen was brought in by our bees in the 4 month season. only a few traces. in more arid regions this may be a different story on the pollen.
    We are not arid here in Wisconsin. Our bees do work corn for the pollen. I suspect whether or not they bring it in has much to do with what other pollen they have easy access to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bud Dingler View Post
    there are a lot of arm chair scientists out there with no credentials and no bee background making sweeping speculative conclusions.
    Yes, we need unbiased studies that focus on sub lethal doses over an extended time, including the effects of feeding exposed pollen to brood.
    Sheri

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Hillsboro, Wisconsin, USA
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    1,672

    Default

    I don't have access to the article, but if it portents the demise of the honeybee based on seed treatment, I think they really have to extend their studies back to when seed was initially treated - decades ago. Now, I do understand that systemic insecticides are becoming more common in coatings on grain seed, and the jury's out on that approach, but I can tell you that were it not for basic fungicide coatings, our corn yield based on germination rates would be greatly reduced.

    MM

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    omaha nebr. USA
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    494

    Default I agree!

    I garden & I see all the little buggers that are a alive in the soil every time I work it in any fashon!
    But as I said I would love to see the tests that have been done to allow this type of seed treatment to be deamed safe.
    If there have been studies, or tests done by some independent lab all we ask is that this information be shared with the public.
    This information will greatly help as to what directions we will be looking to in the future.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Hillsboro, Wisconsin, USA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by soupcan View Post
    This information will greatly help as to what directions we will be looking to in the future.
    I understand the situation - unfortunately, often only through use "in the field" can we determine if in fact a product affects beneficial insects and wildlife. There are many factors which can not be replicated in the laboratory setting, and sometimes these products haven't stood the test of time, either.

    MM

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Auger Hole, MN
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    433

    Default

    [QUOTE=JohnK and Sheri;400755]I wonder who funded the study.

    Bud: no funding, it was a masters student thesis = sorry no conspiracy theory here!

    Corn pollen is known to be low in nutrients and protien and on a list of desirable sources is on the bottom of the list. I can't find the link for the list I have seen.

    My point is corn is not the first thing bees are interested in. I can beleive in NE and other arid places like CO that during Aug there is not much out there for the bees to get pollen from. Here in Wisco/Mn in the wet years the sweet clover is blooming off and on into sept and the wildflower season in the prairie areas and wetlands are in bloom. If bees are collecting corn pollen in late season I would be concerned about them getting through winter on any winter bees raised on a poor nutrition based pollen. Time to get the patties out!

    The CCD working group looked into this already early on and came to the conclusion that Bt corn, GMO corn and treated corn posed no hazard to honeybees. Their funding was from the Ntl Honey Board and a variety of bee industry money sources that donated in 2007. No conspiracy theory here either!

    Its not like the systemics and seed coatings are not on the radar for researchers. They have no smoking gun and beleive me they have looked hard. Its hard then to spend more time on a issue that has no traction except in the minds of some beekeepers.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    omaha nebr. USA
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    494

    Default So were are the test results?

    We pollinate for some large truck farmers that stagger there sweet corn plantings.
    In the last 2 or 3 years all have noticed that most numbers of sweet corn plants are being visited by bees for pollen at or about the same time of plant growth & plant age.
    Another intresting talking point that I have my farm friends asking is that in the mornings they will many times find bees collecting water ( dew ) from the corn plants.
    Leaves cracked, damaged & broken & the bees are collecting water.
    So BT corn kills corn bores now how is that again, how does BT corn work so well???
    It works so well we hardly have any problems or damage from the little buggers in stored comb any longer.
    We will be testing in a few weeks some trapped pollen from California that is taken from an area that the the beekeeper, queen producer is already looking at over a 35% loss rate since the 1st of the year.
    Pollen will be fed to nucs & package bees alike.
    All bees will be started on white extracting comb.
    Please tell me if I have missed anything.
    Probably had better call Barry & get in line for that bee research money.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Auger Hole, MN
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    Default

    [QUOTE=soupcan;401035]
    " So BT corn kills corn bores now how is that again, how does BT corn work so well???
    It works so well we hardly have any problems or damage from the little buggers in stored comb any longer".

    wax moths and corn borers are two different insects

    "We will be testing in a few weeks some trapped pollen from California that is taken from an area that the the beekeeper, queen producer is already looking at over a 35% loss rate since the 1st of the year"

    So they have corn tasseling in Dec and Jan in CA? That theory makes no sense. What crops are being sprayed in mid winter? This sounds unlikely.

  13. #13
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    Sep 2006
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    Dane County, WI.
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    Default

    "Wax moths and corn borers are two different insects".

    Why would you say that? The larvae of both wax moths and corn borers is the 'larval stage' of a moth, which does the damage.

    Maybe bees collect pollen from corn in different parts of the country. Maybe they are collecting dew or liquid from guttation around/from the tassles and it 'appears' they are collecting pollen. I will have to take a closer look at that this summer.

  14. #14
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    Feb 2008
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    Auger Hole, MN
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    Default

    the greater wax moth (Galleria mellonella) is the most serious and destructive insect pest of unprotected honey bee comb in warmer regions

    The European Corn Borer (Ostrinia nubilalis) is a pest of grain, particularly maize.

    close but no cigar

    bees do collect pollen in more arid regions of the world and in times of drought. its just not on the top of the list as honeybees will not raise healthy brood on just corn pollen. ask a bee researcher this is not new information.

    bees collect grain pieces in bird seed too when they have nothing else in early spring before the trees offer copious amounts of pollen.

  15. #15
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    Sep 2006
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    Dane County, WI.
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    Default

    They are both Lepidoptera and moths. I 'know' the corn borer doesn't get into honey bee comb and destroy the wax, or that wax moths lay eggs on corn. You are right though, they are different insects.

    In relation to 'BT', it is used for control of Gypsy moths also; the larvae. Not in the same way as 'BT corn though. Honey bees belong to a different family of course.
    Last edited by Oldbee; 03-05-2009 at 03:40 PM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    chilliwack, bc
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    637

    Default

    I've seen bees gathering juices from crushed ears of sweet corn after harvesting. I've also seen them gathering the juices that rises from the broken stalk. and when I say "gathering" I mean there wasn't a spot to stand in that 40 acer feild where you couldn't here the continuos buzz of bees.
    just thought Id mention that.
    Will Gruenwald Chilliwack BC

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